Posted - 2009.03.30 04:36:00 - [2]

 

As a nighthawk pilot myself I am struggling to figure out the relevance of your comparison for either PvE or PvP.

Particularly seeing as your comparison has the Raven at a 237 DPS config and CNR at 372 DPS. You do not use a gang link on the command ship, all setups use T1 launchers (and thusly t1 ammo). Finally, spare slots on the raven don't contain small or medium sized guns.

In summary, lolwut?

Posted - 2009.03.30 05:07:00 - [4]

 

@Mimi Ar'Skele

This is a post for PvE setups for running missions. Not everyone is a 3 year old player who can use everything.

First of all, you don't use links when soloing level 4 missions, just saying.
Secondly, ask around, who puts medium/small guns on utility slots around here?

@Asuka Smith

Let me take a look at your setup then! I would like to learn and see how you would fit yours.

Posted - 2009.03.30 05:25:00 - [6]

 

Edited by: Terminus Vindictus on 30/03/2009 05:25:59

Quote:

---

Just to make things clear, this article will focus on the ability to complete missions in the said ships with my skills; they are not very super or very the suck, just average.

---

So... what you're saying is that your skills suck, and you can't fit a ship worth a dime for missions. OK then - very informative. Not sure what other conclusion we can draw from your write-up. What exactly is the point you're trying to make? Are you actually using this blog entry as some sort of advice for people? I pity them.

Properly fitted and in the hands of skilled pilots, all three ships are very capable of flying L4 missions successfully. CNR > NH > Raven.

Posted - 2009.03.30 05:44:00 - [8]

 

Originally by: EVE's WeekendWarrior

---

Let me take a look at your setup then! I would like to learn and see how you would fit yours.

---

Here's what I fly:

[Nighthawk, My Nighthawk (T2)]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System

Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Bay Loading Accelerator II
Capacitor Control Circuit I

'Augmented' Hobgoblin x5

**************

[Raven Navy Issue, CNR (L4 cruise)]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System

Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Amplifier

Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

'Augmented' Hammerhead x5
'Augmented' Hobgoblin x5

***********

If you're going to fly faction or T2 ships, you should fit them with faction/T2 mods and with implants, not T1 mods. Both these setups do significantly more damage than yours, and they don't require 3 years of training. I also have a Golem setup, but since you're not looking at those for missions, I won't post it.

Posted - 2009.03.30 06:04:00 - [10]

 

Originally by: Terminus Vindictus

---

Originally by: EVE's WeekendWarrior

---

Let me take a look at your setup then! I would like to learn and see how you would fit yours.

---

Here's what I fly:

[Nighthawk, My Nighthawk (T2)]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System

Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Bay Loading Accelerator II
Capacitor Control Circuit I

'Augmented' Hobgoblin x5

**************

[Raven Navy Issue, CNR (L4 cruise)]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
True Sansha Power Diagnostic System

Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Amplifier

Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

'Augmented' Hammerhead x5
'Augmented' Hobgoblin x5

***********

If you're going to fly faction or T2 ships, you should fit them with faction/T2 mods and with implants, not T1 mods. Both these setups do significantly more damage than yours, and they don't require 3 years of training. I also have a Golem setup, but since you're not looking at those for missions, I won't post it.

---

Hey thanks for sharing but I don't have that kind of money to get it all kitted out with CN stuff and augmented drones (never even seen those drones in contracts before), maybe you wanna lend me some haha .

My setups uses T2 mods expect for the launchers (going to be in training) and my the bill for your ship has to be what? 600-800m for the NH? 1b for the CNR?

I would totally pimp out if I could, but I can't afford to.

As I said before my blog is about a Weekend Warrior. I am not super specialized and as I mentioned I DONT have super bad skills but I am not a grand veteran either, just a Weekend Warrior (average for a mission runner).

Again, thanks for sharing I really apprecate (no jokes) .

Posted - 2009.03.30 06:21:00 - [12]

 

Edited by: Asuka Smith on 30/03/2009 06:22:46
[Raven Navy Issue, CNR]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

X-Large Shield Booster II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Vespa II x5

If you are in a CNR/Command Ship but cannot afford at least a few faction modules, then you are flying a ship that you cannot afford to lose and should do lower grade missions in a drake that you CAN afford to lose. That is the cardinal rule of EVE my good man.

Sorry but your setups are really bad, the setup I just posted above is an excellent mission runner that does 700 DPS and 700+ tank.

Posted - 2009.03.30 07:20:00 - [14]

 

Originally by: Mimi Ar'Skele

---

How I love to EFT warrior. Not. Here is a picture of a t2 and t1 drake setup, flown by yours truly. Note I am far from all Vs, (notably DI IV, missile spec IV, warhead calibration IV, drone spec IV and others...).

Chribba is awesome

I used t2 bcus on the t1 drake -- a bit of a cheat, but they are very inexpensive and the skills to fit them are basic. Feel free to substitute caldari navy BCUs to make my original statement completely true.

You will notice even the t1 fit drake puts out 50% more theoretical DPS than your Raven fit. In comparison the pure t2 fit drake really shines. Also, with a salvage alt ganged you can add at least 100 tankable DPS to either fit when any half way competent command ship pilot is at the wheel.

Neither of the fits include any damage or tanking or PG implants. Given those I can do much, much better (BECAUSE OF FALCON, or, more accurately, gang links).

---

Your T2 Drake is using Furies, which i'm sure if I throw those in my DPS will go a lot higher.

Your T1 Drake is using HAMs which won't do anything to the BC/BS that orbit farther out than 15km.

Sorry, you are looking at no drone damage (pure missile damage) for the Raven while your setups both include drones. Don't see how that works.

My fits for the Raven and CNR can be found on the forums and on Battleclinic so I don't see how they are not standard.

Admittantly a good CS pilot can boostthe gang but I don't have alts on another account and why would you use a Ganges alt to salvage and NOT do the mission?

Not that shabby of setups tho my damage calibration is for Guristas 60/40 Kin/Therm

Posted - 2009.03.30 07:46:00 - [16]

 

Looks like we got moved.

Nevertheless, I would like to state and restate some points.

1. This post was originally a link/notification to...
2. A small guide to "newer" mission runners with average skills that...
3. Discussed my beliefs on why I believe the CS > BS for L4 missions because of various reasonS like...
4. Mentioned in the post (sig size, speed, and medium sized weapons) and not have turned this into a...
5. "My skills/setup is better than yours lol okay pimp it with tons of expensive mods because of the Falcon" post.

Because of the inputs I have recieved, hopefully I can comeback after next weekend and repost my findings. I will fit the given setups all with T2 because then it is possible to see how they scale up because if you fit faction to one they all need to be fitted with faction = the damage/tanks still SCALE up/down.

This was good to talk about and I hope the people posting can turn down the flames a little bit. Good to know there are some contrary beliefs because that is what makes this game so interesting.

Posted - 2009.03.30 08:20:00 - [18]

 

EVE's WeekendWarrior, I am sorry but count how many of your skill points are spent in order to be able to fly a Nighthawk. Caldari Cruiser V, Battlecruiser V, HAC IV + Leadership skills.

Now, imagine that you could remove those million skill points from there and put them to missile, shield and generic useful skills (fitting, cap ect).

My point is that, without even mentioning that your setups are not the best out there by far, a pilot with your total amount of skillpoints is much better if he uses them to fly a Raven - CNR (and prepare for Golem), instead of spending half of them on skills to fly a Nighthawk.

And when you eventually max out everything, CNR (and Golem of course) are still better than Nighthawk. Indeed, a Nighthawk is probably better than a Raven because of its ability to kill smaller things faster.

However, the good thing with Raven is that a 2 month old pilot can jump into it and use it for L4 missions without serious problems. And losing does not hurt as much as losing a Nighthawk.

Posted - 2009.03.30 09:33:00 - [20]

 

Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 30/03/2009 09:34:38
There are so many things wrong with this comparison that I don't know where to begin. I might as well start with the fact that you only compare two caldari ships. Compare the absolution to the Amarr battleships for tank and damage. Or the Astarte with the Megathron or Hyperion. I'll give you two simple reasons why Raven is better than Nighthawk. It's half the price for similar performance.

Posted - 2009.03.30 10:23:00 - [22]

 

Drone Link augmentors are not a bad thing to have. And if you're afraid of your drones wandering off and drawing full aggro: how about setting the drones to passive instead of aggressive?

Posted - 2009.03.30 10:33:00 - [24]

 

Edited by: Asuka Smith on 30/03/2009 10:34:35
You know something Weekend Warrior, you have won me over with your good attitude. Do not let jerks bring you down, and I am glad you like my setup (It was taught to me by a player named Carniflex, one of the greatest mission runners in the game bar none).

As for the rest of you, how can you troll a guy who (admittedly needs some help with fittings) is just so damn NICE. We all trashed him for an entire thread and told him to delete his blog and he compliments us on offering him good advice. This is the sort of player that makes EVE great, troll the idiots not the nice idiots.

Posted - 2009.03.30 12:12:00 - [26]

 

Edited by: Hyveres on 30/03/2009 12:15:44

Originally by: EVE's WeekendWarrior

---

@Mimi Ar'Skele

This is a post for PvE setups for running missions. Not everyone is a 3 year old player who can use everything.

First of all, you don't use links when soloing level 4 missions, just saying.
Secondly, ask around, who puts medium/small guns on utility slots around here?

@Asuka Smith

Let me take a look at your setup then! I would like to learn and see how you would fit yours.

---

The thing is the SP requirement of a command ship is so high that spending the 15-20 days needed to get a T2 weaponsystem for it is a minor investment compared to getting the relevant skills for flying the ship.

I can agree that meta3/meta4 fittings are "normal" on T1 ships but command ship is so far up the ladder that if you do not have T2 of your preffered tanking & weapon system by the time you reach it something is wrong.

Originally by: GyokZoli

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Similar performance? I have yet to meet a Raven with similar performance to may Nighthawk. On the other hand, the CNR has similar performance to the NH. In some cases the NH is better and some cases the CNR is better.

---

is this EFT performance or mission performance?

The difference between a Raven and a CNR is mainly a buffertank difference due to the way missiles and weapon grouping work ingame.

The only times that "extra" launcher matters is when it reduces the number of salvoes required to kill a ship by 1, in most cases it dont meaning that you simply use slightly more ammo for the same number of salvoes to pop a ship. So 2 situations where it makes an effective difference tends to be high bounty battleships and "elite" cruisers where you also fire enough salvoes for it to have an impact. On most/all other targets there is no difference between raven and CNR effective ingame DPS.

Posted - 2009.03.30 12:28:00 - [28]

 

Originally by: Mimi Ar'Skele

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Your Raven setup is laughable. The standard T1 passive drake beats it in both tank and gank. Try the template 3 BCU, 3 hardeners, painter, SB + cap booster t2 launcher config instead. And yes, anything BUT drone links is a good high slot layout for the Raven. The last thing you want is light drones wandering off 70km to draw full room aggro on your head. Drones are for whacking frigates. An NPC frigate keeping 70km distance can be safely ignored.

---

Why on earth would you put a cap booster on a ship that is so easily perma-tanked? You just screw yourself over on long-term survivability and cargo space.

The Raven's strength is being able to sit in a mission with its tank running forever, so you can take a break and go watch a movie without having to warp out, look at the screen or give a damn - cap booster reliance in PvE is fail.

Posted - 2009.03.30 13:15:00 - [30]

 

I am back after a bit of sleep but hey thanks for the continual input I enjoy it.

Looks like I will put skills to all L5 next time around.

Can you guys keep posting a few links to some more favorable setups for L4 T2 solo mission running? I'll pull 20 comparisons side by side if necessary!

Don't worry I gots the best burn suit invented

Plus, running the NH is more fun and pimp ;)