| Author |
Topic |
Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:31:00 - [ 91] - Quote
Edited by: Crias Taylor on 11/11/2009 16:35:33
Generally this looks fine. The mechanics should make defenders and attackers just not try to out dps eachother. I mean those attackers better have reps on the blockades. Not just firepowert.
My only problem is you are giving us one week to do this. 2 weeks would be more resonable. Some of us have Christmas shopping to do and little Johnny didn't ask for a hub. |
CCP Sisyphus
 |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:32:00 - [ 92] - Quote
 Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Are SBU's just big dumb strategic objects with little real time tactical benefit to the side who anchored them or do they provide bonuses, logistics defence etc?
You mentioned 24/48 reinforced timers, does that mean up to 24/48 hours, or do the attackers decide when they structures come out of reinforced?
SBU are what allows you to even hurt the iHub and Outpost. If defender has sovereignty, then their hub and outpost are invulnerable. The defender can set the desired time window for when the hub and outpost come out of reinforced - if there are no attackers at that time they get to repair their structures. - if you destroy the hub, or take the outpost and then loose your blockades, you get to keep the progress you made so far. |
sg3s
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:34:00 - [ 93] - Quote
Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 18:43:46Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 17:17:28Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 16:45:43Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 16:34:43I made a chart that is simpler to understand, tbh the blog chart doesn't look at it from a players perspective even though it is the same, it tells people what they want to know. http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5688/sovindominionv14.pngIt's not pink... edit: do tell me if I ****ed up somewhere. edit4: Updated yet again. |
Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:35:00 - [ 94] - Quote
Edited by: Pnuka on 11/11/2009 16:48:04 Originally by: sg3s
Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 16:34:43
I made a chart that is simpler to understand, tbh the blog chart doesn't look at it from a players perspective even though it is the same, it tells people what they want to know.
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5080/sovindominion.png
It's not pink...
edit: do tell me if I ****ed up somewhere.
Mayority reinforment invulrable vulnrable |
Pattern Clarc
Wrath of Fenris
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:36:00 - [ 95] - Quote
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 11/11/2009 16:38:14 Originally by: CCP Sisyphus
SBU are what allows you to even hurt the iHub and Outpost. If defender has sovereignty, then their hub and outpost are invulnerable.
I understand the strategic benefits they bring, but is that all they do? Just something to shoot at? Do they effect the environment their placed in (beyond sov mechanics) in any tactically meaningful way? And don't you think they should? |
Pattern Clarc
Wrath of Fenris
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:36:00 - [ 96] - Quote
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 11/11/2009 16:37:32
EVE-O is failing. |
CCP Sisyphus
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:38:00 - [ 97] - Quote
Originally by: sg3s
Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 16:34:43
I made a chart that is simpler to understand, tbh the blog chart doesn't look at it from a players perspective even though it is the same, it tells people what they want to know.
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5080/sovindominion.png
It's not pink...
edit: do tell me if I ****ed up somewhere.
Very very nice. The Hub outpost reinforcement thing is hard to make clear. If everything in a system is reinforced, the SBU is invulnerable. otherwise they are vulnerable. The and/or statement might be confusing for defender. |
Inferno Styx
Caldari
Division of Dying Stars
Solyaris Chtonium |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:40:00 - [ 98] - Quote
They are a battering ram, they wedge the door open for you to contest sov in the system. If you lose your majority then the defenders close the door on you and you can't take sov. That is their purpose. |
Mr Opinions |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:44:00 - [ 99] - Quote
Edited by: Mr Opinions on 11/11/2009 16:44:59Edited by: Mr Opinions on 11/11/2009 16:44:21 Originally by: sg3s
Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 16:34:43
I made a chart that is simpler to understand, tbh the blog chart doesn't look at it from a players perspective even though it is the same, it tells people what they want to know.
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5080/sovindominion.png
It's not pink...
edit: do tell me if I ****ed up somewhere.
Your defense chart misses a bit out on a subtlety of when the SBUs are invulnerable. Basically BOTH the outpost AND the hub (if they are present) need to be in reinforced for the attacker's SBUs to be invulnerable. btw that also means that the defender could potentially have a bit of fun by staggering the timers between the hub and outpost, not only making the encounter more drawn out but also causing the SBUs to have to be defended for more time. edit: CCP beat me to my first comment. :P |
Pattern Clarc
Wrath of Fenris
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:46:00 - [ 100] - Quote
I think people are just not getting the difference between tactics and strategy. Installing a POS in the old system as a gave both tactical and strategic benifits to the aggressor.
All I'm seeing with SBU's is a big fat "shoot me sign" with little actual tactical utility that would have otherwise interested groups probably not interested in this kinda stuff currently. |
Altaree
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:47:00 - [ 101] - Quote
WTB Faction SBU's that alter the system's stats for 10x the base cost. (like in WH's)
or maybe just act as cyno jam killers, or cyno beacons, or ....*head explodes* |
sg3s
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:47:00 - [ 102] - Quote
Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 18:45:01Updated the chart. I knew that both needed to be in reinforced for the SBUs to be invul, put that in a note. Majority spelled right :-/ |
Urulok
Lamb Federation Navy
C0VEN |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:48:00 - [ 103] - Quote
if there will be any seeding of sov structures like hubs, upgrades, tcu etc in player outpost at last for first week? |
kyrieee
Psykotic Meat
Wildly Inappropriate. |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:49:00 - [ 104] - Quote
Edited by: kyrieee on 11/11/2009 16:50:34
What happens to your SBUs after you've taken over a system?
Do they stay on the gates? Does an attacker have to blow up SBUs aleady on gates before they can anchor their own? |
Jack bubu
Lyonesse.
RAZOR Alliance |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:51:00 - [ 105] - Quote
Originally by: CCP Sisyphus
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Are SBU's just big dumb strategic objects with little real time tactical benefit to the side who anchored them or do they provide bonuses, logistics defence etc?
You mentioned 24/48 reinforced timers, does that mean up to 24/48 hours, or do the attackers decide when they structures come out of reinforced?
SBU are what allows you to even hurt the iHub and Outpost. If defender has sovereignty, then their hub and outpost are invulnerable.
The defender can set the desired time window for when the hub and outpost come out of reinforced - if there are no attackers at that time they get to repair their structures.
- if you destroy the hub, or take the outpost and then loose your blockades, you get to keep the progress you made so far.
What about Station services, do they behave like before? |
Zastrow
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:51:00 - [ 106] - Quote
Originally by: Crias Taylor
Edited by: Crias Taylor on 11/11/2009 16:35:33
Generally this looks fine. The mechanics should make defenders and attackers just not try to out dps eachother. I mean those attackers better have reps on the blockades. Not just firepowert.
My only problem is you are giving us one week to do this. 2 weeks would be more resonable. Some of us have Christmas shopping to do and little Johnny didn't ask for a hub.
yea but automated TCU anchoring should for the most part keep me from ****ing killing myself. At least now I only have to deal with ihub upgrades |
sg3s
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:53:00 - [ 107] - Quote
Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 18:45:28Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 16:53:22 Originally by: Pnuka
Edited by: Pnuka on 11/11/2009 16:48:04
Originally by: sg3s
Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 16:34:43
I made a chart that is simpler to understand, tbh the blog chart doesn't look at it from a players perspective even though it is the same, it tells people what they want to know.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5688/sovindominionv14.png
It's not pink...
edit: do tell me if I ****ed up somewhere.
Mayority
reinforment
invulrable
vulnrable
 |
Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:59:00 - [ 108] - Quote
|
ropnes |
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:02:00 - [ 109] - Quote
Edited by: ropnes on 11/11/2009 17:02:11 Originally by: Teck7
Edited by: Teck7 on 11/11/2009 15:40:59
You are doing a fine job of ignoring the point of each post. That once SBU's are onlined and the outpost and hub reinforced, the SBU's are invulnerable making the defenders unable to actually defend outside the confines of the reinforced timers - removing all necessity for intermediate combat or the defenders ability to actually DEFEND at a time of there choosing. Attackers get to attack when they choose but defenders do not, that seems flawed.
You choose when the structures come out of reinforced and that is when you fight Dumb much?  |
Anahid Brutus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:06:00 - [ 110] - Quote
Post cleared of inappropriate content. StevieSG. |
xttz
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:07:00 - [ 111] - Quote
Edited by: xttz on 11/11/2009 17:07:02 Originally by: CCP Sisyphus
- if you destroy the hub, or take the outpost and then loose your blockades, you get to keep the progress you made so far.
How is this progress preserved for outposts? Say the attacker takes the outpost after its second reinforcement timer, but the hub is still intact. Can outposts be ping-ponged back once taken if the system is still contested, or do they go invulnerable and remain owned by the attacker until SBUs are destroyed? |
Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:07:00 - [ 112] - Quote
So, attacker anchors his SBUs, and successfully conquers the outpost.
Defender comes back from vacation, drives off the attacker and destroys all of their SBUs.
How does the defender take back the outpost? Do they have to anchor SBUs, thus making their own iHUB vulnerable? |
Emerald goldeye
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:14:00 - [ 113] - Quote
In Dominion, both Outposts and Infrastructure Hubs will have a dual reinforcement timer, one for shields and one for armor. Owners of the structures will be able to set a preferred time that they wish for them to come out of reinforced mode and then a random variable will be applied that determines the exact time they will exit reinforced.
So, if its +- 8 hours random timer. Lets say timed 1200 eve time, it will come out of reinforce from 400 till 2000.
Is it correct?
Btw how this +- 8 hours random timer will be calculated? |
ardik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:15:00 - [ 114] - Quote
IF YOU DONT WANT BIG ALLIANCES TO HOLD A LOT OF SPACE, THEN REMOVE GRINDY DUMB SOV MECHANISMS THAT GIVE DEFENDERS WEEKS TO DO TZ WARS etc. IF BIG ALLIANCES CAN'T DEFEND IN LESS THAN A DAY OR TWO AGAINST ~30 BS JUST SHOOTING SOMETHING, THEN THEY LOSE THEIR ****, THAT SHOULD BE YOUR GOAL, not this gay anchoring **** that's basically pos spamming with another name
basically, reinforcement timers on outposts should be enough |
Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:20:00 - [ 115] - Quote
This seems interesting and I will certainly give it a shot before making a formal opinion.
One thing I am VERY concerned with is the fact that we will have billions worth of sov towers laying around that literally NOBODY is going to want to buy while at the same time needing to purchase the equivalent worth of upgrade hubs and upgrades to claim sov in our existing systems (all while freightering it from highsec in the 1 week window when many of us have finals and such). That CCP is not allowing some sort of structured buy-back of sov towers at NPC prices seems more than a little unfair to me. |
sg3s
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:22:00 - [ 116] - Quote
Edited by: sg3s on 11/11/2009 18:45:47Updated my chart yet again. Clarified that SBUs can be placed by anyone and that the system loses invul when the defenders loses majority. Finding the option to change language in Visio was an impossible for me task so I might still have missed some Pnuka, suck it. Originally by: Pnuka
Originally by: sg3s
armour
Don't get too picky eh, lemme guess, British? |
Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities |
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:25:00 - [ 117] - Quote
|
Rage Trade |
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:25:00 - [ 118] - Quote
LOL randon reinforced timers.
LOL the defender can't take the fight to the attacker because attacking structures are invulnerable inside the defenders system.
"Hey guyz! we were attacked during the night and all our s*** is in reinforced. What do we do now?"
"Just go ratting because we can't do s*** for about 24h."
And we still don't have a figure for the costs of anchoring and maintaining the TCU and SBU. |
0dos0
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities |
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:25:00 - [ 119] - Quote
Edited by: 0dos0 on 11/11/2009 17:31:05
Lets not have to destroy the inf HUB, please?
Actually scratch that!! CCP - is the system index the reward? |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:26:00 - [ 120] - Quote
Originally by: Rage Trade
LOL randon reinforced timers.
LOL the defender can't take the fight to the attacker because attacking structures are invulnerable inside the defenders system.
"Hey guyz! we were attacked during the night and all our s*** is in reinforced. What do we do now?"
"Just go ratting because we can't do s*** for about 24h."
And we still don't have a figure for the costs of anchoring and maintaining the TCU and SBU.
Hi, I have no idea what I just read and am going to make a random dumb post. |
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