| Author |
Topic |
CCP TomB
 |
Posted - 2005.03.18 10:46:00 - [ 1]
I have removed Warp Scramblers & Stasis webifiers from any kind of usability changes besides duration (they are now both set to 5 second duration, capacitor need per second should not change) & the propulsion skill now giving less capacitor need per skill level.
A pile of ships have had modified sensor strengths updated to the Test Server this morning. This is now in fine tuning and might get changed before the patch from what you can currently see.
These are the modules, skills & ships that will be affected by the Electronic Warfare changes in upcoming patch:
Module modifications & addons
ECM Target Jammers
Target Jamming: Each module will act as an individual, using the attack strength as a possibility of jamming any kind of ship.
Range: They now have Optimal Range and Fall Off Range, example of Multispectral ECM II with EW Optimal skill level 4 = 50KM, with Scorpion & Caldari Battleship skill level 4 = 91KM. Racial Jammers operate further than Multispectrals, same skills with Racial ECM II = 136KM.
Other: Capacitor Need for the Racial ECM has been increased, Multispectral ECM on the other hand reduced. Multispectral still use more cap and have less range. Duration of both modules set to 20 seconds.
ECM Burst
Target Jamming: Use the same method as the targeted ECM Jammers, but only brakes the lock instead of keeping the target jammed for a set period.
Other: Capacitor Need has been increased a lot, some ships might not have enough capacitor to activate this module.
Remote Sensor Dampeners
Sensor Dampening: Reduced base efficiency but trainable to previous level with new skill.
Range: Now have Optimal & Fall Off Range, Optimal Range is not as high as ECM Target Jammers, but Fall Off is extremely high, example of RSD II with level 4 EW range skill: 42KM Optimal - 84KM Fall Off.
Other: Duration has been shortened, capacitor needed per second to operate has been increased to a level where it might not be operational for longer period of time by ships with small capacitor & slow recharge rate.
Tracking Disruptor
Tracking Disruption: Tracking disruption has been decreased but Optimal disruption increased, both trainable to higher efficienct with new skill.
Range: Uses similar Optimal & Fall Off ranges as ECM Target Jammers.
Other: Duration shortened, capacitor need per sec stays the same.
ECCM
Sensor Strength: Base strength increased from 3 to 4 and will get higher with named drops & tech II.
Target Painter
Target Painting: New module that increases Signature Radius of target.
Range: Uses similar Optimal & Fall Off ranges to Remote Sensor Dampeners
Skill modifications & addon
Electronic Warfare
Old: Increased Duration
New: Decreased Capacitor Need
Sensor Linking
Old: Increased Duration
New: Decreased Capacitor Need
Tracking Disruption
Old: Increased Duration
New: Decreased Capacitor Need
Astrometrics - not really a part of the EW but linked with Covert Ops (see below)
Old: None
New: Faster Scan Probe scanning
Target Painting *NEW*
New: Decreased Capacitor Need
EW Fall Off *NEW*
New: Increased Fall Off of ECM, RSD, TD & TP
EW Optimal Range *NEW*
New: Increased Optimal Range of ECM, RSD, TD & TP
ECM Strength *NEW*
New: Increased efficiency of ECM
Remote Sensor Dampener Strength *NEW*
New: Increased efficiency of RSD
Tracking Disruption Strength *NEW*
New: Increased efficiency of TD
Target Painting Strength *NEW*
New: Increased efficiency of TP
Ship modifications & addons
Crucifier
Old: CPU Bonus
New: Tracking Disruption efficiency Bonus
Other: Base CPU & Target Range increased
Griffin
Old: CPU Bonus
New: ECM Optimal Range Bonus
Other: Base CPU & Target Range increased
Maulus
Old: CPU Bonus
New: Remote Sensor Dampener efficiency Bonus
Other: Base CPU & Target Range increased
Vigil
Old: Targeting Range Bonus
New: Target Painter efficiency Bonus
Other: Base CPU & Target Range increased
Celestis
Old: Hybrid Tracking Bonus
New: Remote Sensor Dampener efficiency Bonus
Other: Removed Low Slot, addon of Medium Slot, Target Range increased
Blackbird
Old: ECM Capacitor Need Bonus
New: ECM Optimal Range Bonus
Other: Base Target Range increased
Scorpion
Old: Missile Velocity Bonus
New: ECM Optimal Range Bonus
Other: Base Target Range increased
Covert Ops
New: Faster Scan Probe scanning |
Vaarmoth Malinigvious
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.03.18 10:51:00 - [ 2]
Edited by: Vaarmoth Malinigvious on 18/03/2005 10:52:53The people will love you once again, TomB. edit: oh, and please tell me I didnt just waste 15 days training propulsion jamming lvl 5  |
Swindley
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:10:00 - [ 3]
Sounds great! Love the webber changes:D No more annoying 24 second wait for webber to finish:D |
lordmix
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:12:00 - [ 4]
nice work by the look off it. let see how it goes on TQ now |
ElectroSister4
Doomheim
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:13:00 - [ 5]
This looks cool  |
Gilad Pellaeon
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:15:00 - [ 6]
 Originally by: Vaarmoth Malinigvious
oh, and please tell me I didnt just waste 15 days training propulsion jamming lvl 5
I learnt a long time ago, not to train anything until it was released on TQ. I hope the Propulsion Jamming skill change comes in though.... but I will see it when I believe it. :P ..and the changes are looking good so far Tomb. :D |
Ebedar
Gallente
Primary Intelligence
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:15:00 - [ 7]
|
Scorpyn |
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:18:00 - [ 8]
Just wanted to point out another thread about the Covert Ops ship bonus, where some suggestions were made about alternative bonuses. The ones suggested so far are listed here : Bonuses that can get better with higher skills* Faster scans * Greater range on scanprobes * Accuracy (closer warp-in) <- might be bad in some cases though, since some prefer long range fighting * More than 1 AU up/down * Scan probe launcher CPU usage reduction * Reload time reduction * Launch time reduction Static bonuses (no bonus for higher skill level)* Spheric scans instead of the 1au limit up/down * Ability to scan while cloaked * Ability to launch scanprobes while cloaked * Scan probes invisible on scanner I'm not saying that the speed bonus is bad, in fact I like it a lot. I just wanted to point out that there are more options since I don't know whether you have already considered them or not. |
Torvus Jay
Minmatar
Vale Tudo.
Privateer Alliance |
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:22:00 - [ 9]
Edited by: Torvus Jay on 18/03/2005 11:24:00
So the propulsion jamming equipment is no longer going to be chanced based. If so YAY FOR THAT. if not :(
But the shortened duration on warp scrams, if they are no longer chanced based could this be put off untill after missle changes. This seriously makes missle using bships much much more immune to being held down long enough to kill. Also takes alot of fun out of tackling as you are almost assured death against a raven if you want to hold it, interceptors become marginalized against stuff like vigils. The reason being that with such a short duration there is 0 room to maneuver.
Also means the entirety of skill involved in tackling is click > orbit 5km, click > activate mwd, click activate web and warp scram... your ship is out of control. |
Ebedar
Gallente
Primary Intelligence
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:37:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Torvus Jay
Edited by: Torvus Jay on 18/03/2005 11:24:00
So the propulsion jamming equipment is no longer going to be chanced based. If so YAY FOR THAT. if not :(
But the shortened duration on warp scrams, if they are no longer chanced based could this be put off untill after missle changes. This seriously makes missle using bships much much more immune to being held down long enough to kill. Also takes alot of fun out of tackling as you are almost assured death against a raven if you want to hold it, interceptors become marginalized against stuff like vigils. The reason being that with such a short duration there is 0 room to maneuver.
Also means the entirety of skill involved in tackling is click > orbit 5km, click > activate mwd, click activate web and warp scram... your ship is out of control.
It seems that the shortened duration is offset by reduced cap use (which can be reduced further with skills). Haven't had a chance to test it, but that seems to be the way it works on Sisi - with everything else working as it currently does on TQ. Actually looks pretty good (cap wise) for tackling frigs. |
Thanit |
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:44:00 - [ 11]
Its not about cap but about moving into 7.5km range for activation and out again to avoid the missiles but be back in 7.5km again in time for the new cycle.
with a 5 sec cycle this becomes impossible. |
Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers |
Posted - 2005.03.18 11:48:00 - [ 12]
TomB, Originally by: TomB
I have removed Warp Scramblers & Stasis webifiers from any kind of usability changes besides duration (they are now both set to 5 second duration, capacitor need per second should not change) & the propulsion skill now giving less capacitor need per skill level.
Mind giving the reason for why you removed the warp scramblers and stasis webbers from the ew changes? For more tweaking ? If for more tweaking, good  (most peeps wouldn't agree I guess  ). Originally by: TomB
A pile of ships have had modified sensor strengths updated to the Test Server this morning. This is now in fine tuning and might get changed before the patch from what you can currently see.
Perhaps the Bellicose could be looked at as well? Perhaps change it to a ew support ship or perhaps make it like the Breacher's big brother? Originally by: TomB
ECM Strength *NEW*
New: Increased efficiency of ECM
Remote Sensor Dampener Strength *NEW*
New: Increased efficiency of RSD
Tracking Disruption Strength *NEW*
New: Increased efficiency of TD
Target Painting Strength *NEW*
New: Increased efficiency of TP
Perhaps these 4 skills could be merged into 1(like with the ew optimal & falloff skills)? Having 4 skills that have the same effect, just on different modules, feels like a waste. Originally by: TomB
Ship modifications & addons
*snip*
Maybe Bellicose could be added to this list, here's my suggestion for an ew supporter Bellicose Old: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret Rate of Fire New: Target Painter efficiency Bonus(or perhaps something else) Other: removed high slot, added mid slot, target range increased some My thoughts on the matter. |
Damocles Ician
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 12:06:00 - [ 13]
I can't seem to find the target painter mods... am I being thick? |
Ebedar
Gallente
Primary Intelligence
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 12:07:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Thanit
Its not about cap but about moving into 7.5km range for activation and out again to avoid the missiles but be back in 7.5km again in time for the new cycle.
with a 5 sec cycle this becomes impossible.
You're right, I missed what he was getting at. My bad. |
Damocles Ician
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 12:24:00 - [ 15]
Regarding "Remote Sensor Dampeners" - how does the effectiveness change between being in optimal range and bring in falloff range? Do I understand right that the percentage effect is static within optimal, but the further out into the falloff the target is the less the effect? (upto the very edge of falloff where the effect is minimal?) - Or is it a case that an RSD operating in "falloff range" only has a 50% (ie half power) effect?
Or something else?
|
MaiLina KaTar |
Posted - 2005.03.18 12:33:00 - [ 16]
All I can say is: n1
Great decision on webs and scrams.
|
Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 12:54:00 - [ 17]
Looking nice - as others have said, good decision on the the webs / scrams - presume your not finished with them though?
I'll have to check out the ECM again on SiSi when I get home - looks quite exciting.
Whilst your fiddling with EW ships - hows about the much mooted 'Scorpion as a Rail Platform' idea? Would fit well with the EW changes.
|
Dianabolic
Reikoku |
Posted - 2005.03.18 13:54:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: TomB
Other: Capacitor Need for the Racial ECM has been increased, Multispectral ECM on the other hand reduced. Multispectral still use more cap and have less range. Duration of both modules set to 20 seconds.
WHAT?????? TomB, I BEG YOU, do NOT increase the duration of ECM Multispectrals to 20, TWENTY SECONDS????!!!! There's a reason our ecm guys didn't train up EW beyond lvl 1. PLEASE rethink this, Multispecs, as per these new changes, have decreased range and increased cap useage PLEASE reduce their duration to 5seconds. |
Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.03.18 14:31:00 - [ 19]
lvl 5 EW + Propulsion Jamming ftw :) |
Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 14:47:00 - [ 20]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: TomB
Other: Capacitor Need for the Racial ECM has been increased, Multispectral ECM on the other hand reduced. Multispectral still use more cap and have less range. Duration of both modules set to 20 seconds.
WHAT??????
TomB, I BEG YOU, do NOT increase the duration of ECM Multispectrals to 20, TWENTY SECONDS????!!!!
There's a reason our ecm guys didn't train up EW beyond lvl 1. PLEASE rethink this, Multispecs, as per these new changes, have decreased range and increased cap useage PLEASE reduce their duration to 5seconds.
I think its a 20sec activation delaay to stop scorps from cyclejamming everything. Also thx for not changing the webs. |
Zagum Darkfin
Ghosting Corp
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 15:33:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Kaeten
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: TomB
Other: Capacitor Need for the Racial ECM has been increased, Multispectral ECM on the other hand reduced. Multispectral still use more cap and have less range. Duration of both modules set to 20 seconds.
WHAT??????
TomB, I BEG YOU, do NOT increase the duration of ECM Multispectrals to 20, TWENTY SECONDS????!!!!
There's a reason our ecm guys didn't train up EW beyond lvl 1. PLEASE rethink this, Multispecs, as per these new changes, have decreased range and increased cap useage PLEASE reduce their duration to 5seconds.
I think its a 20sec activation delaay to stop scorps from cyclejamming everything.
Also thx for not changing the webs.
With the game lag for large fleet battles, cycjamming is almost impossible to do NOW. Please have Multispecs stay at 5 seconds. With the game lag it still will be 20 seconds duration or more. Thanks for the webber/warp decision. Good move. Much love! |
Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc. |
Posted - 2005.03.18 16:10:00 - [ 22]
Kinda stupid that ECM now wont work on the "optimal" range of most fleet engagements... I mean, when fighting ATUK and Shinra in Delve and Fountain now, all they do is sit in tempests, armas, megas and apocs at 100km and fireing...
Another thing is, when the scorpion now losses its offensive bonus it really will take a cm 1,5 mins to travel to its target O_O Tbh, It's should become a railgun platform and not missile with these changes... But please make sure it can use 6 guns or it will really really suck... |
Jim Raynor
Caldari
Clarity of Purpose
|
Posted - 2005.03.18 16:34:00 - [ 23]
This is nice and all but the Scorpion now has 0 offense. |
Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2005.03.18 17:42:00 - [ 24]
TomB, can you make sure the new skills are seeded in advance of the patch if possible, so the transition is easier before everyone resorts to pure damage setups. |
Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2005.03.18 17:44:00 - [ 25]
how soon would we see T2 EW mods then?
|
Dianabolic
Reikoku |
Posted - 2005.03.18 17:53:00 - [ 26]
Originally by: Kaeten
I think its a 20sec activation delaay to stop scorps from cyclejamming everything.
Also thx for not changing the webs.
I'm aware of that, it is that ability I want to protect. New ECM Multispecs have: LESS range than specifics MORE cap useage LESS points on sensor. Multispectrals are FINE at 5 seconds. You have absolutely ZERO defence when setup to do this role, you make a massive sacrifice to do this force multiplier role and, imo, it should be kept. |
Face Lifter |
Posted - 2005.03.18 18:34:00 - [ 27]
I'd agree that multispec cycle should be shorter than 20 seconds. Considering the low chances of successful jamming and fast paced nature of combat, I'd say that multispec cycle shouldn't be more than 10 seconds.
Seriously, think about it. Currently a stack of 4 multispecs may be considered a bit overpowered. Okay, so you increase requirements (nerf #1), add range limit (nerf #2), remove stacking (nerf #3), introduce chance based system with low success probability (nerf #4).. I think this would do it, no need to change cycle duration, at least not so radically.
CCP frequently goes too far with nerfs, when overpowered things needed just a small adjustment. Don't make the same mistake all the time. If after those initial nerfs things still look overpowered (which I highly doubt), then you can always nerf it some more later. Small predictable steps over time are better than one giant leap into uncertainty
btw, I'm glad the propulsion modules were left alone. |
Namelesz
Viscosity
Ocularis Inferno |
Posted - 2005.03.18 18:45:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: Scorpyn
Just wanted to point out another thread about the Covert Ops ship bonus, where some suggestions were made about alternative bonuses. The ones suggested so far are listed here :
Bonuses that can get better with higher skills
* Faster scans <-YES
* Greater range on scanprobes <- There are already different scan range probes
* Accuracy (closer warp-in) <- might be bad in some cases though, since some prefer long range fighting <- it's all dependant on the probes accuracy, not tied to ship
* More than 1 AU up/down <- again, tied to probe and not ship
* Scan probe launcher CPU usage reduction <- fine as it is
* Reload time reduction <- could be useful
* Launch time reduction <- mine launch right away . . .
Static bonuses (no bonus for higher skill level)
* Spheric scans instead of the 1au limit up/down <- same as I said above
* Ability to scan while cloaked <- too overpowering
* Ability to launch scanprobes while cloaked <- can't activate modules while cloaked
* Scan probes invisible on scanner <- and then have absolutely no defense to those hiding? no way.
I'm not saying that the speed bonus is bad, in fact I like it a lot. I just wanted to point out that there are more options since I don't know whether you have already considered them or not.
my answers to all suggestions in bold |
Namelesz
Viscosity
Ocularis Inferno |
Posted - 2005.03.18 18:47:00 - [ 29]
I am liking alot of the changes so far but some have asked and we really wanna know : Originally by: TomB
I have removed Warp Scramblers & Stasis webifiers from any kind of usability changes besides duration
. . . does this mean no other changes now besides the duration and cap, or will we expect to see it in the near future to be changes? |
Deadzone
Caldari
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Dara Cothrom |
Posted - 2005.03.18 19:18:00 - [ 30]
I don't think TomB is finished with the jammers and scrams yet but would like to hear that from him. What is going on in that head of your TomB?  As for the rest of it, including the MS duration, nice work on it. I think this will be a positive change. |
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