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Faction ship tweaking

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Author	Topic
CCP Tuxford	Posted - 2005.11.22 09:57:00 - [1] With the recent overhaul on tech 1 frigates and cruisers it's only natural to take a closer look at faction ships. First I would like to tell you all what factions ships are and how good they are supposed to be. They are like a named ship. That is they are better then the standard tech 1 version but not quite as good as tech 2. The Navy/Fleet ships are usually a upgrade from the top tier ship. The pirate faction ships are a bit more funky. They have two racial elements in them, for example Guristas faction ships is mostly based on Caldari but has a bit of Gallente influence in the design most evident by the skills they need and the bonuses they get. First of the frigates mass is way off. So I just made new numbers from scratch. typeName mass Amarr Navy Slicer 1 300 000 kg Caldari Navy Hookbill 1 400 000 kg Gallente Navy Comet 1 250 000 kg Republic Fleet Firetail 1 150 000 kg typeName mass Succubus 1 500 000 kg Cruor 1 300 000 kg Daredevil 900 000 kg Worm 1 400 000 kg Dramiel 1 200 000 kg
CCP Tuxford	Posted - 2005.11.22 09:58:00 - [2] Navy/Fleet Frigates These ships are mostly upgrades of the top tier racial frigates. That is Amarr Navy Slicer is an upgrade from Punisher, Hookbill upgrade from Merlin and so on. Amarr Navy Slicer Bonuses 10% bonus to small laser cap use per level 5% bonus to small laser damage per level Changes Powergrid increased to 47MW Signature radius lowered to 38m Max targetting range increased to 31 km Caldari Navy Hookbill Bonuses 10% shield capacity per level 10% small hybrid optimal range per level Changes Added a low slot Powergrid increased to 37MW Max targetting range increased to 35 km Capacitor capacity increased to 290 Gallente Navy Comet Bonuses 5% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level 5% bonus to small hybrid damage per level Changes Added a launcher hardpoint Powergrid Increased to 40MW Max targetting range increased to 32.5 km Capacitor capacity increased to 290 Republic Fleet Firetail Bonuses 5% bonus to maximum velocity per level 5% bonus to small projectile tracking per level Changes Added a med slot Powergrid increased to 38MW Signature radius lowered to 36m Max velocity increased to 325m/sec Pirate faction frigs These ships are a bit more funky than the navy/fleet faction ones. They will of course keep their funk and just a minor adjustment made. Succubus Bonuses Static: 50% bonus to small laser capacitor use Amarr: 5% bonus to small laser damage per level Caldari: 5% bonus to EM missile damage per level Cruor Bonuses Static: 50% bonus to small laser capacitor use Amarr:10% bonus to energy vampire drain amount per level Minmatar:10% bonus to stasis webifier range per level Daredevil Bonuses Static: 25% small hybrid damage Gallente: 5% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level Minmatar:10% bonus to microwarpdrive capacitor penalty per level Changes Added a launcher hardpoint Worm Bonuses Static: 50% light missile and rocket velocity Caldari: 5% bonus to missile kinetic damage per level Gallente: 5% bonus to small hybrid damage per level Changes Added a launcher hardpoint Added a low slot Dramiel Bonuses Static: 25% bonus to small projectile damage Minmatar: 5% bonus to small projectile damage per level Gallente: 5% bonus to small projectile tracking per level Changes Added a high slot
Helmut 314 Amarr Unladen Swallow Research Institute	Posted - 2005.11.22 10:10:00 - [3] Coolness! I have one small request. Can you up the Succubus CPU a bit, 10-15 or so more base. Its hard to fit both launchers and decent hardeners atm.
twit brent The Scope	Posted - 2005.11.22 10:56:00 - [4] Stilll pains me that all the railgun ships only have 2 turret slots and there is not one decent blaster frigate in there .
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:06:00 - [5] Great! Just one question: Why add a launcher to the Comet and the Daredevil? They're turret ships.
twit brent The Scope	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:10:00 - [6] Edited by: twit brent on 22/11/2005 11:11:41 When you say that the faction frigate is taken from the top tier racial frigates why arent ships like the incursus frigate included. The incursus like the tristan is a tier 3 frigate and I cant see how the tristan is the better ship. I would think that a cross between minmatar and gallente ships would favor the incursus hull more as a fast high damage frigate. Can you please change the daredevil to a 3 turret 1 launcher ship so not every races faction friggy is so focused on missiles. Its got a MWD bonus so its obviously meant to use one but i cant see the point of a MWD bonused frigate with only 2 blasters.
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:11:00 - [7] Edited by: Trelennen on 22/11/2005 11:16:02 Edited by: Trelennen on 22/11/2005 11:14:40 Great! Why is there no minmatar/caldari faction ships? And 2 of each class with minmatar/gallente? And frankly, when we look at the dramiel, it has absolutely nothing gallenteish. It's closer to a minmatar/caldari ship, due to its 2 turrets / 3 launchers HP (and for all the rest it's pretty fully minmatar style ;)). Haven't looked at the 2 matar/gallente cruisers and BSs, but it's quite likely that at least one of them would be closer to a minmatar/caldari ship than a minmatr/gallente one. That's a bit sad not to have any minmatar/caldari ship... PS: EM missile damage from the caldari frig skill seems quite weird, shouldn't this be kinetic missile damage? Else it's more a bastardized ship between a punisher and an inquisitor than an amarr/caldari hybrid ;) edit: imho, the minmatar/gallente faction ship with 2 proj bonii in each class should be a minmatar/caldari ship
CCP Tuxford	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:14:00 - [8] oops forgot to post the cruisers Navy/Fleet Cruisers Augoror Navy Issue Bonuses 10% bonus to medium laser cap use per level 10% bonus to armor hitpoints per level Changes Powergrid increased to 900MW Caracal Navy Issue Bonuses 5% to heavy and light missile kinetic damage per level 10% bonus to heavy and light missile velocity per level Vexor Navy Issue Bonuses 5% bonus to medium hybrids damage per level 10% bonus to drone damage and drone hitpoints per level Stabber Fleet Issue Bonuses 5% bonus to medium Projectile rate of fire per level 5% bonus to max velocity per level Pirate faction cruisers Gila Bonuses Static: 50% bonus to missile velocity per level Caldari: 5% bonus to light and heavy missile kinetic damage per level Gallente: 5% bonus to medium hybrid damage per level Changes Added two launcher hardpoints Phantasm Bonuses Static: 50% bonus to medium laser cap use Amarr: 5% bonus to medium laser rate of fire per level Caldari: 5% bonus to heavy and assault missile launcher rate of fire Cynabal Bonuses Static: 25% bonus to medium projectile rate of fire Minmatar: 5% bonus to medium projectile damage per level Gallente: 5% bonus to medium projectile tracking per level. Vigilant Bonuses Static: 25% bonus to medium hybrid damage per level Gallente: 5% bonus to medium hybrid tracking per level Minmatar: 10% bonus to microwarpdrive capacitor penalty per level Changes Powergrid increased to 820MW Dronebay increased to 50m3 Added a missile hardpoint Ashimmu Bonuses Static: 50% bonus to medium laser cap use Amarr: 10% bonus to energy vampire drain amount per level Minmatar: 10% bonus to stasis webifier range per level
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:16:00 - [9] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 22/11/2005 11:54:54 Thanks! Is it possible to have a 'lil tiny bit of extra cpu for the daredevil? It feels like it inherited from the cpu problems of both gallente and minmatar . Tristan and rifter have a similar slot layout, minus the 4th mid, yet the daredevil has got 125 tf like both of them. It also has got less powergrid but i suppose it's all right since it's supposed to be a close range ship exclusively. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Tuxford Vigilant Bonuses Static: 25% bonus to medium hybrid damage per level Gallente: 5% bonus to medium hybrid tracking per level Minmatar: 10% bonus to microwarpdrive capacitor penalty per level Changes Powergrid increased to 820MW Dronebay increased to 50m3 Added a missile hardpoint Just to be sure, those 50m³ of drone bay are for after drone changes (eg. like a thorax MK2 + drone changes), right? All these changes look pretty good, specialy for frigs, they definitely needed some love, thanks
George X Eagles Nest	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:21:00 - [11] Any love for faction BSes?
CCP Tuxford	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Trelennen Just to be sure, those 50m³ of drone bay are for after drone changes (eg. like a thorax MK2 + drone changes), right? All these changes look pretty good, specialy for frigs, they definitely needed some love, thanks Yeah after the drone bay reduction.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:11:00 - [13] Edited by: Testy Mctest on 22/11/2005 12:13:36 Seriously, why are you playing with faction frigs, which are at best toys, when you have a long list of broken main race ships (Minmatar and others...) and equipment (Projectiles) that have yet to be looked at? I think your priorities are ridiculously skewed. Either that or, if you are looking at these things already, an indication that you're doing so would be nice. Please see: this thread, which I'm sure you're already aware of. I appreciate that you have a massive job to do in game balance, and that you cant answer every question put to you, but really....this needs a comment at the least. Im trying to not turn this into a crusade, but Im really tired of wasting my skill training time on ships that look like theyre never going to become good, and indeed are going to get worse in a few weeks.
bundy bear	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:15:00 - [14] Dare devil needs 3 turrets 1 launcher. Kinda makes sence if it has 2 hybrid damage bonuses and a MWD bonus.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:17:00 - [15] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 22/11/2005 12:19:05 Thanks so much for the utterly useless EM missile dmg bonus to Succubus, no really we all love useless bonuses, not enough that it's the slowest least agile piece of crap out there. Oh and Phantasm gets two different bonuses to cap use you say? Great, exciting bonus there.
bundy bear	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Testy Mctest Edited by: Testy Mctest on 22/11/2005 12:13:36 Seriously, why are you playing with faction frigs, which are at best toys, when you have a long list of broken main race ships (Minmatar and others...) and equipment (Projectiles) that have yet to be looked at? I think your priorities are ridiculously skewed. Either that or, if you are looking at these things already, an indication that you're doing so would be nice. Please see: this thread, which I'm sure you're already aware of. I appreciate that you have a massive job to do in game balance, and that you cant answer every question put to you, but really....this needs a comment at the least. Im trying to not turn this into a crusade, but Im really tired of wasting my skill training time on ships that look like theyre never going to become good, and indeed are going to get worse in a few weeks. Most minmatar ships need to be looked at and also shipes like the ARES that just suck.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:44:00 - [17] Edited by: Testy Mctest on 22/11/2005 12:44:57 Originally by: bundy bear Most minmatar ships need to be looked at and also shipes like the ARES that just suck. Yup. They do require some thought and alterations. This game is great via its diversity, which is curtailed by some ships not being usable in comparison to others who can do the same jobs better. Heres a link for the Devs to look at, maybe :/
CCP Tuxford	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 22/11/2005 12:19:05 Thanks so much for the utterly useless EM missile dmg bonus to Succubus, no really we all love useless bonuses, not enough that it's the slowest least agile piece of crap out there. Oh and Phantasm gets two different bonuses to cap use you say? Great, exciting bonus there. Phantasm bonus was wrong it's laser rate of fire and launcher rate of fire. I didn't really change most of the bonuses at all so if they look kind of silly now it's probably an error.
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:55:00 - [19] Um...not that I'd be complaining, but...Vigilant? 25% dmg bonus PER LEVEL?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2005.11.22 13:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Ticondrius Um...not that I'd be complaining, but...Vigilant? 25% dmg bonus PER LEVEL? Typo. It's also listed as static, which implies it doesn't change.
Sarmaul Brutor tribe	Posted - 2005.11.22 14:15:00 - [21] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Ticondrius Um...not that I'd be complaining, but...Vigilant? 25% dmg bonus PER LEVEL? Typo. It's also listed as static, which implies it doesn't change. well seeing as there is only one level to a static bonus, it still applies
Rex Martell Caldari	Posted - 2005.11.22 15:51:00 - [22] Go-Faster stripes on the Vindicator
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2005.11.22 16:05:00 - [23] That's good then, I see you didn't comment on my Succubus rant ;/ It really is a horrible crappy little ship.
KilROCK Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2005.11.22 16:11:00 - [24] Can the dramiel have 3 Turret hardpoint, 2 missile. Give it a bit of powergrid. For the vigilant, noone asked for a missile hardpoint, what's up with you tux and adding missile hardpoint on every ships
CCP Tuxford	Posted - 2005.11.22 16:15:00 - [25] Originally by: KilROCK Can the dramiel have 3 Turret hardpoint, 2 missile. Give it a bit of powergrid. For the vigilant, noone asked for a missile hardpoint, what's up with you tux and adding missile hardpoint on every ships Don't you remember the first time you fought a serpentis Thorax. My first thought was, where the **** did he get a launcher hp.
KilROCK Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2005.11.22 16:32:00 - [26] From tuxford
Nafri Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2005.11.22 16:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: KilROCK Can the dramiel have 3 Turret hardpoint, 2 missile. Give it a bit of powergrid. For the vigilant, noone asked for a missile hardpoint, what's up with you tux and adding missile hardpoint on every ships Don't you remember the first time you fought a serpentis Thorax. My first thought was, where the ** did he get a launcher hp. jo, but that was before the missle adjustment, now its more like "jesus, thy must have **load of SP"
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2005.11.22 16:59:00 - [28] Originally by: Tuxford Gila Bonuses Static: 50% bonus to missile velocity per level Caldari: 5% bonus to light and heavy missile kinetic damage per level Gallente: 5% bonus to medium hybrid damage per level Changes Added two launcher hardpoints Vigilant Bonuses Static: 25% bonus to medium hybrid damage per level Gallente: 5% bonus to medium hybrid tracking per level Minmatar: 10% bonus to microwarpdrive capacitor penalty per level Changes Powergrid increased to 820MW Dronebay increased to 50m3 Added a missile hardpoint Ashimmu Bonuses Static: 50% bonus to medium laser cap use Amarr: 10% bonus to energy vampire drain amount per level Minmatar: 10% bonus to stasis webifier range per level [/*] I'll restrict my comments to these cruisers, since they are the ones I happen to own and can easily look up to compare notes. Currently on Tranquility, I see the Gila bonuses specified as heavy missiles, with the damage bonus not listed as just kinetic. It also has 10% medium hybrid optimal range, not damage as listed above. So, is it going to be exactly as stated here, with all missile types getting the velocity bonus and light and heavy kinetic types receiving the damage bonus? As for the hybrid bonus, it seems to me optimal range would fit better for a missile-specialist ship (which is more what it will be with the added launchers). The Vigilant drone changes are going to make it a nice alternative to heavy assaults for pilots without the advanced skills. It's a little low on slots compared to other faction ships, but I think the drone bay makes up for that. I'm wondering why the Ashimmu has no changes listed. Granted, it's a niche ship that's somewhat popular already, but with web bonuses maybe 3 medium slots is a touch low, though it does have a lot of slots already. Alternately, it could use a tad more CPU or maybe a marginal drone bay. Overall, the cargo capacity of the faction cruisers should be examined. It seems to me the revised Gila could use more space for missile reloads, and the Vigilant should probably match the Thorax cargo bay. Any ships that have to carry ammunition should get some cargo consideration, especially if defense changes are going to make for longer battles, and thus a greater need to carry a lot of reloads. It's difficult to collect even small amounts of loot with those ships, even for some of the T1 empire cruisers. Deadspace complexes, both static and mission-specific, can be murder on loot hauling, even if it's mostly junk to be melted down. Belt rat loot stacks up pretty fast, too.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2005.11.22 17:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: KilROCK Can the dramiel have 3 Turret hardpoint, 2 missile. Give it a bit of powergrid. For the vigilant, noone asked for a missile hardpoint, what's up with you tux and adding missile hardpoint on every ships Don't you remember the first time you fought a serpentis Thorax. My first thought was, where the **** did he get a launcher hp. Same thpought here, i always wondered where those serpentis NPC hid their missile launcher Anyhow, interesting changes. Personally id like to see faction ships placed between t1 and t2 assault ships though, with slightly higher skill reqs then t1 ship but not quite as high as t2. Slightly better then t1 is nice and all but not very useful.
VortiK Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.11.22 18:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Tuxford Dramiel Bonuses Static: 25% bonus to small projectile damage Minmatar: 5% bonus to small projectile damage per level Gallente: 5% bonus to small projectile tracking per level Changes Added a high slot o Why the Dramiel gets 2 bonuses on the same attribute ? Should'nt it be like the Cynabal and the Machariel with a static 25% projectile rof bonus ( as it was ) ? o What about the BSs ? Does it mean that they're fine as they are ?

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