| Author |
Topic |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:22:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: WolfGang H on 11/01/2006 06:27:23
Anyone flying around in interceptors or in big groups of ships looking for that fast easy kill is a coward.
What do interceptors kill best? NPC set up battleships (non combatants) haulers (non combatants) mining ships (non combatants) frigates (noobs and poor people) and other interceptors (bottom feeders).
Anyone flying in groups of BSes might try to argue that they are not playing in a "cowardly" fashion, but playing in a "smart" fashion. But really, to have courage is to break away from the mob mentality and be your own person. In *ANY* MMO, what self respecting true PVPer enjoys hanging out in groups? Think about that.
PVPers should fight PVPers and either ransom or ignore non combatants. You dont have to destroy everything you see. BTW, if you ransom correctly you will make more isk than if you just blindly randomly pk, and the people who you ransomed, if they are smart, will respect you for ransoming instead of killing. |
Righteous Fury
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:23:00 - [ 2]
I'm guessing you got yourself ganked today and are a bit butthurt about it? |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:26:00 - [ 3]
 Originally by: Righteous Fury
I'm guessing you got yourself ganked today and are a bit butthurt about it?
And you are wrong. Despite that fact that I live in 0.0, I have not lost a ship in about 2 months. Awww... pooor Righteous Fury just got owned. |
Cadiz
Caldari
EXTERMINATUS.
Atlas Alliance |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:27:00 - [ 4]
One, you seem to assume that most PvPers are killing for profit. May be so for the so-called "pirates", but most of the alliance PvPers have no real pretenses about it - they kill because it's fun. And if I had to guess, I'd say the alliance PvPers far outnumber the low-sec empire pirate types...
Incidentally, I also like how you call all interceptor pilots cowards. God forbid that people fly interceptors because they enjoy high-speed combat or the heavy degree of personal finesse that comes into play in inty vs. inty combat!
Let me guess: you got popped by a gatecamp that involved insta-locking tackleceptors today. Let me shed a tiny tear of sorrow for you, and then play a mournful note on this miniature violin here. |
Calshir
Minmatar |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:28:00 - [ 5]
Unfortunately in every open PvP game there are always a portion of the player base that find it amusing to ruin the game play of others  The only thing you can do is try and stay out of their way and be careful where you go until you can look after yourself. |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:29:00 - [ 6]
Originally by: Cadiz
One, you seem to assume that most PvPers are killing for profit. May be so for the so-called "pirates", but most of the alliance PvPers have no real pretenses about it - they kill because it's fun. And if I had to guess, I'd say the alliance PvPers far outnumber the low-sec empire pirate types...
Incidentally, I also like how you call all interceptor pilots cowards. God forbid that people fly interceptors because they enjoy high-speed combat or the heavy degree of personal finesse that comes into play in inty vs. inty combat!
Let me guess: you got popped by a gatecamp that involved insta-locking tackleceptors today. Let me shed a tiny tear of sorrow for you, and then play a mournful note on this miniature violin here.
Read my post above. You have been served. Thanks for trying. Do you think that it is possible for a person to post, not because something bad just happened to them, but because they believe what they are posting is true? |
Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente
Omniscient Order
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:29:00 - [ 7]
Of course, your argument is flawed. After all, let's say I hopped into a battleship and went solo fighting in somebody's space ... What would happen? Quote:
interceptors
would hold me down for their friends, and I'd die. Quote:
big groups of ships looking
which is most people, they will gank me and I will die. Quote:
flying in groups of BSes
which aren't about to give me a 1v1, I'd get ganked and die. On the other hand, I could fly an interceptor, have little worry of getting ganked by large ships, have a reasonable chance to escape, and get some nice pvp (vs other interceptors) in. There are some that prey only on haulers of course, but nobody has a high opinion of them anyway. So while flying in groups is something I look down on, reality is that most people are doing it, and if you don't (and don't fly a "bottom feeder interceptor" and go cruiser/hac/bs instead) you're just going to get owned again, and again, and again, and ....  |
Cadiz
Caldari
EXTERMINATUS.
Atlas Alliance |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:30:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: WolfGang H
Originally by: Cadiz
One, you seem to assume that most PvPers are killing for profit. May be so for the so-called "pirates", but most of the alliance PvPers have no real pretenses about it - they kill because it's fun. And if I had to guess, I'd say the alliance PvPers far outnumber the low-sec empire pirate types...
Incidentally, I also like how you call all interceptor pilots cowards. God forbid that people fly interceptors because they enjoy high-speed combat or the heavy degree of personal finesse that comes into play in inty vs. inty combat!
Let me guess: you got popped by a gatecamp that involved insta-locking tackleceptors today. Let me shed a tiny tear of sorrow for you, and then play a mournful note on this miniature violin here.
Read my post above. You have been served. Thanks for trying. Do you think that it is possible for a person to post, not because something bad just happened to them, but because they believe what they are posting is true?
Nice work ignoring the rest of the post and just focusing in on the last two sentences there, guv. |
aeti
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:30:00 - [ 9]
the clueless factor is very high here :/ |
Arcticblue2
Gallente
Nordic Freelancers inc |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:32:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Righteous Fury
I'm guessing you got yourself ganked today and are a bit butthurt about it?
Actually while the fightings where going on in Basgerin Wolfgang was NOT afraid throwing himself into a fight where there where multiple wartargets (see battleships) with his HAC... he have probably lost millions if not up to billion on that fight in equipment and ships. That took balls ... and for that you just got to admire it, when I have lost ships I have lost ships to gateganks where 3vs1 and so on... on 1vs1 I have not lost ships yet... |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:32:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Cadiz
One, you seem to assume that most PvPers are killing for profit.
A valid point. Sometimes it is just fun to kill. I understand a fair amount of non-combatant killing is going to occur and that is fine. But with how things currently work in EVE (a few exceptions exist here and there), if you CAN kill someone (they are flsagged, they are in 0.0, a bug allows you to, whatever) then most people DO KILL them. 0.0 should not equal "Must kill unless blue." |
Guntaro |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:33:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: Guntaro on 11/01/2006 06:41:20
Well since you say you live in 0.0 I assume then that you are referring to the lame ganking and podding on sight tactics of the evil alliance players whom I personally consider the lowest of all the gankers.
Well there is an alliance named just that, NBSI (not blue shoot it) |
Vegeta
Minmatar
Guiding Hand Social Club
Dystopia Alliance |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:34:00 - [ 13]
Like a great man once said:
You are a sissy. |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:34:00 - [ 14]
|
dantes inferno
Caldari
The Demigods
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:36:00 - [ 15]
dont want to be killed in 0.0 by alliance members, 2 simple rules
1) stay out of their space or
2) contact the alliance for + standings
not to hard now is it? |
Liquid Metal
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:36:00 - [ 16]
WHiiiine, go do some 1v1 pvp combat and tell me whos a coward then, even try anything 1v1, urgh im sick of whiners in this game.
Just becase you got ganked, maybe you should be more careful. Serves you right imo, use scouts and get better. |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:37:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen
Of course, your argument is flawed. After all, let's say I hopped into a battleship and went solo fighting in somebody's space ... What would happen?
Quote:
interceptors
would hold me down for their friends, and I'd die.
Quote:
big groups of ships looking
which is most people, they will gank me and I will die.
Quote:
flying in groups of BSes
which aren't about to give me a 1v1, I'd get ganked and die.
On the other hand, I could fly an interceptor, have little worry of getting ganked by large ships, have a reasonable chance to escape, and get some nice pvp (vs other interceptors) in. There are some that prey only on haulers of course, but nobody has a high opinion of them anyway.
So while flying in groups is something I look down on, reality is that most people are doing it, and if you don't (and don't fly a "bottom feeder interceptor" and go cruiser/hac/bs instead) you're just going to get owned again, and again, and again, and ....
I admit there is truth in your post and I may have made too large of generalizations. Even so, the posts against me do not fully nullify my points. There is some validity to what I've said. PVPers in EVE are cowards. All pvpers? No. But a much larger majority than in other MMOs. I know I'm making a "mistake" comparing EVE to "other MMOS" but I really do believe I have a valid point. I'd just like to see a little more honor and a little less cowardly gank squads and "kill everything on sight" tactics. |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:38:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Arcticblue2
Originally by: Righteous Fury
I'm guessing you got yourself ganked today and are a bit butthurt about it?
Actually while the fightings where going on in Basgerin Wolfgang was NOT afraid throwing himself into a fight where there where multiple wartargets (see battleships) with his HAC... he have probably lost millions if not up to billion on that fight in equipment and ships.
That took balls ... and for that you just got to admire it, when I have lost ships I have lost ships to gateganks where 3vs1 and so on... on 1vs1 I have not lost ships yet...
Wow, I did not realize someone would still remember my "Basgerin Project." Thanks for the compliment sir. |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:39:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Liquid Metal
WHiiiine, go do some 1v1 pvp combat and tell me whos a coward then, even try anything 1v1, urgh im sick of whiners in this game.
Just becase you got ganked, maybe you should be more careful. Serves you right imo, use scouts and get better.
Reading comprehension FTW. I could disect every pont you *attempted* to make in that post and rip them to shreds. |
Liquid Metal
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:39:00 - [ 20]
Edited by: Liquid Metal on 11/01/2006 06:39:57im drunk i dont care  i have whine detection level 5 |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:40:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: dantes inferno
dont want to be killed in 0.0 by alliance members, 2 simple rules
1) stay out of their space or
2) contact the alliance for + standings
not to hard now is it?
Are you posting that for my benefit or for the benefit of others? Because it does not really apply to me. |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:40:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Liquid Metal
Edited by: Liquid Metal on 11/01/2006 06:39:57
im drunk i dont care i have whine detection level 5
I resepct a man who can admit he may have posted in a rash manner. |
Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente
Omniscient Order
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:41:00 - [ 23]
Quote:
PVPers in EVE are cowards. All pvpers? No
Oh, I definitely agree with you and I didn't mean to say that I did not. However, it's just like the blob phenomenon -- to beat the blob, you have to be a blob With capital ships becoming more affordable and available in the future this may change, but for now it's the unfortunate reality. I too would greatly enjoy smaller, more balanced fights  |
Cadiz
Caldari
EXTERMINATUS.
Atlas Alliance |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:42:00 - [ 24]
The reason why more EVE PvPers may appear to be "cowards" is because there is actually some sting of loss in EVE, which therefore discourages suicidal bravery/stupidity. When a properly-fitted HAC death can set you back 200+ million (not to mention waiting lists to get replacements!), people are going to understandaby play things safer than they would in, say, Dark Age of Camelot or World of Warcraft.
I saw the same sort of thing in Ultima Online. All parties involved in PvP will try to stack the odds in their favour, one way or another. Sometimes this means superior numbers, other times this means superior elan and tactics, and sometimes it means knowing when you're beat and breaking off instead of dying. It just goes with the territory, really. |
Liquid Metal
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:45:00 - [ 25]
Edited by: Liquid Metal on 11/01/2006 06:46:00
Tbh stabs = pvp multipliers, reduce the wcs, reduce the gank force, pvp, npc whatever, a fitting is a fitting, a ship is a ship, its how you prepare for it which determines the outcome. Your shortfall is lack of foresight. So you shouldnt really be calling anybody a cowards imo. |
Calshir
Minmatar |
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:48:00 - [ 26]
Originally by: Guntaro
Edited by: Guntaro on 11/01/2006 06:41:20
Well since you say you live in 0.0 I assume then that you are referring to the lame ganking and podding on sight tactics of the evil alliance players whom I personally consider the lowest of all the gankers.
Well there is an alliance named just that, NBSI (not blue shoot it)
The point you seem to be missing is that if you are flying around in 0.0 and are unknown to the alliance that occupies that space then yes you will get shot, not because it's fun or ammusing but because the alliance concerned have put a lot of time effort and ISK into taking over that region of space. You could be a spy for an enemy alliance scouting ahead for them, giving them vital information about numbers and types of ships, they just don';t know and in war it's a case of shoot first and sod the questions. |
babylonstew
Caldari
Caldari Scouting and Intel Group
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:48:00 - [ 27]
while i admit, maybe the op has some small point somwhere, what he fails to realise is, EVE has THE WORST death penalty of any other MMO as far as i know, so people really dont like losing ships, mods etc..., also, an awfull lot of these multi bs gnaks are in alliance spoace, which i assume they are entitled to defend?
or are you (the op), suggesting alliances should send equal numbers, ships, set ups and pilot skills to combat each hostile or uninvited incursion into thier space?
note, im not in any allaince currently but did spend some time in a 0.0 alliance
|
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:50:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: Cadiz
The reason why more EVE PvPers may appear to be "cowards" is because there is actually some sting of loss in EVE, which therefore discourages suicidal bravery/stupidity. When a properly-fitted HAC death can set you back 200+ million (not to mention waiting lists to get replacements!), people are going to understandaby play things safer than they would in, say, Dark Age of Camelot or World of Warcraft.
I saw the same sort of thing in Ultima Online. All parties involved in PvP will try to stack the odds in their favour, one way or another. Sometimes this means superior numbers, other times this means superior elan and tactics, and sometimes it means knowing when you're beat and breaking off instead of dying. It just goes with the territory, really.
It helps expalin the counter to my point, but I have to agree with you here some. I should also add one of the reasons large squads of pvpers will gladly wait even for an hour just to kill 1 non-combatant: they are starved for kills. Because, as you said, death in EVE has a greater sting, people are more cautious. More cautious will = more gank sqauds (if you are weak minded you join one) but it will also = few kills, since people are harder to kill (for example, a trader might spend 4 hours bookmarking a route that he is only gonig to fly 2 times). "PVPers" become starved for kills and when they finally have a ship scrambled and webbed they dont really care who it is or what the circumstances are, they just want to KILL. Am I saying the death penalty in EVE should be lessened? No, not at all. I think the harsh death penalty is one of the great features of EVE. In a way, though, I wish it was easier to both evade predators AND catch runners. Not sure if that is possible or even makes sense though. |
WolfGang H
Cash Money Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:51:00 - [ 29]
Originally by: Liquid Metal
Edited by: Liquid Metal on 11/01/2006 06:46:00
Tbh stabs = pvp multipliers, reduce the wcs, reduce the gank force, pvp, npc whatever, a fitting is a fitting, a ship is a ship, its how you prepare for it which determines the outcome. Your shortfall is lack of foresight. So you shouldnt really be calling anybody a cowards imo.
You had some interesting points until you began acting again like I'm somehow whining because I was recently ganked. |
Frezik
Basically Outdated Stereo Equiptment
|
Posted - 2006.01.11 06:55:00 - [ 30]
Originally by: WolfGang H
In *ANY* MMO, what self respecting true PVPer enjoys hanging out in groups? Think about that.
If you're not going to do stuff in groups, what's the point of an MMO? Yes, I know other MMOs don't completely grasp this point, that's why I don't play them. |
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