| Author |
Topic |
Wizerud
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 20:35:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Wizerud on 04/05/2006 23:42:37
I see a lot of questions in the Missions and Skills forums regarding the Social skill tree. This is a quick guide on what each of them actually do and how they work. I am only a 5-week old player so if I am incorrect about any of these interpretations please post below with proposed corrections. I'm not saying this is the be-all and end-all of authorititive guides, it's merely an analysis of my observations in-game. So if I am incorrect, please post, I'm not going to get upset :)
Hostile or friendly? That is the question...
Firstly, what determines whether a corporation is friendly or hostile? Any corporation which belongs to a faction you have positive standing with is a friendly corp. For example, let's say you have a 1.50 standing with TransStellar Shipping Storage, a Gallente-aligned corporation, but you have -0.75 standing with the Gallente faction. Even though you've obviously done a lot of missions for them, TSS is still considered a "hostile" corporation.
The three types of Standing
There are three kinds of standing. Standing with each race (also known as faction standing), standing with each corporation and standing with each agent.
Whenever you do a regular, non-storyline mission for a corporation your standing with that corporation and the agent you got it from will increase. The standing with the faction does NOT increase from regular missions. It appears that only successfully completing storyline missions give you positive standing with the faction that the NPC corporation is aligned to, as well as the corporation the storyline agent belongs to.
SOCIAL
The Social skill itself. This gives a 5% bonus to agent and corporation standing gains per mission. If it is a storyline mission the bonus applies to faction standing too.
CONNECTIONS
This is an instantaneous 4% standing increase to friendly NPC corporations and races. It does not increase your standing with any agent, though it may open up more agents to you that work for any friendly corporation due to said increase.
A quick explanation of what this 4% actually means is in order. Let's say you have a standing of 0.0 with a corporation. Consider that the maximum standing you can have with them is 10.0. The game applies the 4% to the difference between your current standing with all friendly NPC corporations and 10.0. So at 0.0 standing you will gain an actual increase of 0.4, the full amount. If you already have a standing of 5.0 with a particular corporation you will gain a 0.2 net standing increase by training up a level of Connections (4% of 5.0 = 0.2).
A 0.4 standing increase with a corporation should open up agents who are +8 higher in quality than the ones you could use before. For example, let's say the highest level agent you can get right now with a particular corporation is Level 2, Quality -11. A 0.4 standing increase would allow you to work for Level 2, Quality -3 agents. Although bear in mind that to get Level 2 Quality -11 agents in the first place sort of implies that you've already done some work for that corp, and probably already have a higher standing than 0.0. If that's the case, you won't get a flat 0.4 standing increase to the corporation by training a level of Connections.
[continued...] |
Wizerud
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 20:35:00 - [ 2]
Edited by: Wizerud on 04/05/2006 23:44:35
DIPLOMACY
This works in the same way as the Connections skill, but for hostile NPC corporations and races. If, like me, you have done lots of missions for a bunch of different corporations who belong to different factions and you have trained in both Connections and Diplomacy, you may notice that in the Standings section of the Character Sheet some corporations are listed with a bonus applied due to Diplomacy and some affected by Connections. This is purely determined by your standing with the faction that the NPC corporation belongs to (friendly or hostile). It is quite possible to have the corporation you've got the best standing with still considered hostile, even with various levels of Diplomacy taken into account. Again, this will happen if the faction that said corporation is aligned to is one which you have a negative standing with.
The description in-game appears to be incorrect. It states that you receive a flat 0.4 standing increase with hostile corporations per level. I believe this is actually 4%, much in the same way as Connections work, but I will double-check on this or perhaps someone else can confirm it.
Finally, let's say that your base standing with Caldari is -0.80 without Diplomacy taken into account. If you have enough Diplomacy levels to give you a positive standing with that race, all previously hostile corporations listed in the Standings section of your character sheet will now be affected by the Connections skill, rather than Diplomacy. The only corporations that should be affected by the Diplomacy skill are ones where even with Diplomacy taken into account your standing with the faction that the corporation belongs to is still not enough to give you positive standing.
NEGOTIATION
This gives a flat increase of 5 in quality level of agent per skill level and is perhaps the most important skill for a mission runner.
BUREAUCRATIC, FINANCIAL, HIGH-TECH, LABOR, MILITARY, POLITICAL and TRADE CONNECTIONS
All of these skills give you a 5% increase to loyalty point gains when you complete a mission for an agent who belongs to a corporate division that falls under one (or more) of the skills listed above. Most divisions belong to more than one of the above, and the bonuses DO STACK! I am not completely sure whether the bonuses are added together before being applied in one lump sum, or whether one bonus is applied, followed by another, followed by another etc, which would ultimately give you a bigger loyalty point gain. I heard that it was the latter, so I'll go with that for now.
CRIMINAL CONNECTIONS
According to the description, this skill apparently gives you a 0.4 standing increase to all NPC's who have negative standings with Concord i.e. pirate factions. It would appear from the description that your own standing with the NPC in question is not taken into account. Also, is it really 0.4 or 4% like with Connections? Clarification is also needed on when this skill takes effect.
DED CONNECTIONS (not currently live)
Each level trained of this gives you a bonus of 1,500 isk on the bounty of each NPC pirate that you kill. *Subject to change if/when it goes live*
FAST TALK
This gives you a 5% bonus to your current standing with Concord.
So basically, if you want a bigger standing increase upon completing missions, go with the Social skill. If you want more isk for completing missions, go with Negotiation. If more loyalty points are what you're after go with the various corporation division skills (labor, political etc). And if you want a more passive increase across the board for all corporation standings thereby opening up more agents to you, go with Connections for friendly factions and Diplomacy for hostile ones.
Please provide feedback if any of this information is incorrect or misleading. I hope some of you feel this guide is helpful. |
Lefia
Gallente
CONsordium Infinate
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 00:30:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: Lefia on 13/04/2006 00:37:30Gonna make a correction for you here because your misuse of the term "faction" might confuse people:  Quote:
Standings
There are three kinds of standing: standing with each race (also known as faction standing), standing with each corporation, and standing with each agent.
Whenever you do a regular, non-storyline mission for a corporation your standing with that corporation and the agent you got it from will increase. The faction standing with the race does NOT increase from regular missions. It appears that only successfully completing storyline missions give you positive faction standing with the race that the NPC corporation is aligned to, as well as the corporation the storyline agent belongs to.
You do it in other places too, but I don't want to change the whole thing. Note: the word "Faction" is a reference to a Faction within EVE (ie Amarr, Matar, Blood Raiders, etc.), not a measure of the standing a particular faction, corperation, or agent has for you. |
Wizerud
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 02:09:00 - [ 4]
Updated accordingly, thank you! |
Cukogra
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 04:24:00 - [ 5]
Much appreciated, this is a great easy guide, wish I had it when I first looked into the skills. |
Ditscher
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 10:51:00 - [ 6]
Originally by: Wizerud
NEGOTIATION
This simply gives you a 5% bonus to mission monetary rewards per level for ALL agents.
Skill at agent negotiation. Improves agent effective quality. 5% additional pay per skill level for agent missions.this is the official despription, but it is wrong. you get +5 effective standing of your agents for each level of this skill. ich you have an effective standing of 20 and train negotiation to level 1, you have an effective standing of 25 afterwards. if you donīt believe me, just do some low level missions and look at the rewards. you always get "round" amount of isk, and not 11.500 instead of 10.000, if you trained negotiation to level 3. just look at your effective standing after completing one level aof negotiation. |
Ditscher
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 13:32:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: Wizerud
BUREAUCRATIC, CRIMINAL, FINANCIAL, HIGH-TECH, LABOR, MILITARY, POLITICAL and TRADE CONNECTIONS
All of these skills give you a 5% increase to loyalty point gains when you complete a mission for an agent who belongs to a division that falls under one (or more) of the skills listed above. Most divisions belong to more than one of the above, and the bonuses DO STACK! I am not completely sure whether the bonuses are added together before being applied in one lump sum, or whether one bonus is applied, followed by another, followed by another etc, which would ultimately give you a bigger loyalty point gain. I heard that it was the latter, so I'll go with that for now.
i donīt think you can add criminal connections to this group of skills. it shows no devisions like the other skills. now i think, criminal connections maybe comes into place, if you have a positive standing towards npcs factions with a low concord standing. if your standing is negative, but positive through the diplomacy skill, itīs not active. if your standing is over 0.0, then criminal connections becomes active. i have no proof, but let me explain my guessing: i run mission for a pirate faction, and my faction concord stand is below 0.0 now, but its positive because of diplomacy. when it was over 0.0, connections raises it. you can see a change from connections to diplomacy. if have a 7+ standing to true power, but my standind to sansha nation is negative. my diplomacy skill raises it to 0.24. if my standing is positve, it seems logical to, that criminal connections affects my standing, because the faction is no longer hostile to me, but has a low concord standing. and true power is hostile to me, because my faction standing is negative. they donīt really care about my corp standing. it would be very useful, if somebody with a high pirate faction standing could tell, if criminal connections affects his standing or diplomacy. btw: ded is not ingame afaik, maybe you can add that to the info. p.s.: i really like this thread, its really good for new players who want to do missions and want to know, how the skills work. the despriptions are easily misunderstood... pirate factions mission running 4tw YARR   |
DrakeStone
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Celestial Industrial Alliance |
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:03:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Ditscher
Originally by: Wizerud
NEGOTIATION
This simply gives you a 5% bonus to mission monetary rewards per level for ALL agents.
Skill at agent negotiation. Improves agent effective quality. 5% additional pay per skill level for agent missions.
this is the official despription, but it is wrong. you get +5 effective standing of your agents for each level of this skill. ich you have an effective standing of 20 and train negotiation to level 1, you have an effective standing of 25 afterwards.
if you donīt believe me, just do some low level missions and look at the rewards. you always get "round" amount of isk, and not 11.500 instead of 10.000, if you trained negotiation to level 3. just look at your effective standing after completing one level aof negotiation.
But since each quality level equates to 1% additional payout, how is it effectively any different? |
Wizerud
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 16:58:00 - [ 9]
Originally by: Ditscher
i donīt think you can add criminal connections to this group of skills. it shows no devisions like the other skills.
Good catch. Will update accordingly and again when confirmation is received on exactly what it does. Thanks! |
Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 23:35:00 - [ 10]
Now this is sticky-able  |
Naughty Lamia
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 15:06:00 - [ 11]
Great guide. Thank you for this. |
Simon Gruber |
Posted - 2006.04.20 17:19:00 - [ 12]
|
DrakeStone
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Celestial Industrial Alliance |
Posted - 2006.04.20 18:37:00 - [ 13]
|
Wizerud
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.04.20 19:04:00 - [ 14]
So are you saying that the 5% monetary reward is merely a by-product of the standing increase gained from the Negotiation skill? |
JP Beauregard
Gallente
Pilkington Communications
|
Posted - 2006.05.04 21:46:00 - [ 15]
Oh brother, where do I start? In a sense, you're reinventing the wheel here. But at least you looked into this stuff, which is way more than most people do. Perhaps I'll simply ask you to review your descriptions based on the following equations? Effective Standing = Actual Standing + [(10 - Actual Standing) * 0.04 * Level of Connections or Criminal Connections or Diplomacy] The skills kick in depending on the nature of your relationship with the entity in question for the three standing types and are mutually exclusive. Connections will raise your effective standing towards riendly corporations, i.e. corporations with a base standing of 0.00 or better. If the faction or corporation already has negative base standing towards you, the Diplomacy skill is applied towards your standing with them and their agents, even if you have positive standing with one of their agents. Diplomacy only works for factions and corporations with whom you have negative standing. Criminal Connections applies to standing with agents from a criminal corporation, i.e. with low standing from CONCORD. It does not affect standing with a corporation or faction. All three skills work the same way, i.e. they add 4% per level of the difference between current standing and 10. ----------------------------------------------------- Agent Standing Increase = Base Mission Increase * (1 + 0.05 * Level of Social) Corporation Standing Increase = Agent Standing Increase * Agent Efficiency/Corporation Modifier Agent Efficiency = 0.01 * (8 * Agent Level + 0.1 * Agent Quality - 4) While the Social skill impacts the amount of standing you gain as a result of a mission, it only applies directly towards standing with the agent. Standing gains/losses with a corporation (and faction, in the case of important missions) are derived from the standing gain/loss with the agent. ----------------------------------------------------- Effective Quality = Base Quality + (5 * Level of Negotiation) + Effective Standing Negotiation only affects agent quality. Rewards increase as a result of a higher effective quality. There is no direct 5% increase in monetary rewards because an extra level of Negotiation does not raise the agent's quality by 5%. The skill description, like a good many other things in EVE, is very poorly worded. As for how the stacking of bonuses for the special connections skills works, I have honestly never bothered to even wonder about that because you have no way of influencing the base value. In the case of LPs, more is always better.  |
Wizerud
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.05.04 23:46:00 - [ 16]
Slightly altered Social description and re-did Negotiation description based on above. |
Rina Shanu
Imperial Polar Ventures
Stainless. |
Posted - 2006.05.05 09:26:00 - [ 17]
Very nice guide, short and comprehensive. Also very usefull for new and old me thinks.
So me votes for a STICKY !!! |
Ditscher
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.05.05 14:27:00 - [ 18]
the most complete guide to socials i know socials skills are not easy to underrstand sticky |
Gindolar Dunblane
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.05.17 02:30:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Wizerud
Slightly altered Social description and re-did Negotiation description based on above.
I would include the formulas in the original post too, since they're easier to use. |
Precog |
Posted - 2006.05.17 12:17:00 - [ 20]
much thanks for the author and follow up posts. Sticky this |
Akbar Jafarr |
Posted - 2006.05.19 07:09:00 - [ 21]
This should be sticky'ed, but maybe you should cut and paste it into a new post so its a bit 'cleaner.' |
Astrum Ludus
Amarr
StateCorp
Huzzah Federation |
Posted - 2006.05.19 16:28:00 - [ 22]
Good post and content, thanks |
Ditscher
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.05.19 19:09:00 - [ 23]
btw: this thread is already in an sticky thread, but in the missions forums... |
Maobih Vanire |
Posted - 2006.08.26 20:50:00 - [ 24]
Edited by: Maobih Vanire on 26/08/2006 21:08:00 Originally by: JP Beauregard
Effective Standing = Actual Standing + [(10 - Actual Standing) * 0.04 * Level of Connections or Criminal Connections or Diplomacy]
JP does faction standing effect this? otherwise you end up with... i think... a corp that you have a standing of less then -5.0 not being recoverable from this... e.g.: Effective Standing = -5 + [(10 - (-5)) * 0.04 * 5] = -5 + [3] = -2 -2 corp standing is the minimum for an agent of that corp to talk to you. Effective Standing = -6 + [(10 - (-6)) * 0.04 * 5] = -6 + [3.2] = -2.8 with a corp standing of -2.8 none of the agents will talk to you at that point. even if you have say +5 standing with an agent in that corp. although this would mean if you had say killed a lot of angels and had horrid standing with, how are you supposed to repair this standing with it being something like -9.8? Effective Standing = -9.8 + [(10 - (-9.8)) * 0.04 * 5] = -9.8 + [3.96] = -5.84 if this is the case then it would seem this also should be added to the information here... also it would help to have an example like this if there is a metric like this given. |
JP Beauregard
Gallente
Pilkington Communications
|
Posted - 2006.08.26 21:34:00 - [ 25]
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 26/08/2006 21:34:55 Originally by: Maobih Vanire
Originally by: JP Beauregard
Effective Standing = Actual Standing + [(10 - Actual Standing) * 0.04 * Level of Connections or Criminal Connections or Diplomacy]
JP does faction standing effect this?
Huh? Btw, thread necromancy is bad, esp. if it is coupled with evemail... But if I understand your question correctly, the answer is yes. Faction standings are subject to skill-based modifications from base faction standing to effective faction standing. Once your faction standing drops below -2, no agent in that faction will talk to you and you cannot "repair" faction standing at that level directly. You can still gain faction standing through derived modifications and hope to make it above the threshold that way. Plus there was some talk about making the lowest quality lvl 1 agent in every faction available to all regardless of their standings but I suppose that never got implemented. I would also like to ecourage the use of "please" and "thank you". |
Maobih Vanire |
Posted - 2006.08.26 22:07:00 - [ 26]
Edited by: Maobih Vanire on 26/08/2006 22:22:29 Originally by: JP Beauregard
Huh? Btw, thread necromancy is bad, esp. if it is coupled with evemail...
sorries. Originally by: JP Beauregard
But if I understand your question correctly, the answer is yes. Faction standings are subject to skill-based modifications from base faction standing to effective faction standing.
Once your faction standing drops below -2, no agent in that faction will talk to you and you cannot "repair" faction standing at that level directly.
mmm no i know that. what i was saying is, does the metric you gave incorporate faction standings... lets say for sake of example: minmatar faction actual standing is 0 republic fleet actual standing is -6 diplomacy is 5 given your metric you gave you would end up with: Effective Standing = -6 + [(10 - (-6)) * 0.04 * 5] = -6 + [3.2] = -2.8 lets say you then spend the time to increase minmatar faction standing and now you have: minmatar faction actual standing is 2 republic fleet actual standing is -6 diplomacy is 5 does this impact your standing with republic fleet so that your effective standing with them changes for the better? given your equasion, it would not. is that the case? from experience, once you go under -2 corp standing, no agent in that corp will talk to you. i had guessed that the same was true for faction standings. Originally by: JP Beauregard
You can still gain faction standing through derived modifications and hope to make it above the threshold that way. Plus there was some talk about making the lowest quality lvl 1 agent in every faction available to all regardless of their standings but I suppose that never got implemented.
could you go into greater detail on how the derived effects might work with respect to the above? i don't think the level 1's are like that. it appears i can not talk to any of the fleet agents with a fleet effective standing of -2.5 Originally by: JP Beauregard
I would also like to ecourage the use of "please" and "thank you".
thanks for your more then timely resp |
chuckus |
Posted - 2006.10.08 02:29:00 - [ 27]
The Special connection skills add up to 25% at lvl 5 to lp's earned, this is and additive bonus, meaning if you have both sets that improve your agent then you get a 50% boost to the lp payout of the particular mission. So yes, for mission runners like myself, having the skill to 5 for your type of agent is a must, as Is social 5 and connections to at least 4. connections is not as Important as you become an older player, but as a newer player you can reduce the time needed to access higher level agents. |
Haege Mon |
Posted - 2006.10.11 03:46:00 - [ 28]
Nice guide.
But you forgot one information. Give us the formulae to calculate REQUIRED CORP STANDING to use a certein agent. For examplle if I want to use an L4 agent with quality -18, there is a formulae to calculate what corp standing you need without looking at the agent profile/info.
(I forgot the formulae, this is why I am asking.) |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2006.10.11 13:18:00 - [ 29]
L1 Q-20 -> -1.00
L1 Q-10 -> -0.50
L1 Q+00 -> 0.00
L1 Q+20 -> 1.00
L2 Q-20 -> 1.00
[...]
L4 Q-20 -> 5.00
L4 Q+00 -> 6.00
L4 Q+20 -> 7.00 |
Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2006.10.11 13:42:00 - [ 30]
Originally by: Akita T
L1 Q-20 -> -1.00
L1 Q-10 -> -0.50
L1 Q+00 -> 0.00
L1 Q+20 -> 1.00
L2 Q-20 -> 1.00
[...]
L4 Q-20 -> 5.00
L4 Q+00 -> 6.00
L4 Q+20 -> 7.00
To follow on from this, the formula is: [Base standing for agent level] + (0.05 * every quality point above -20) Therefore a level 4 Q20 agent would need: 5 + (0.05 * 40) = 7.00 The base standing for each of the agents are: Level 1: -1.00 Level 2: 1.00 Level 3: 3.00 Level 4: 5.00 |
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