Posted - 2007.02.02 20:55:00 - [3]

 

Posted - 2007.02.08 12:08:00 - [5]

 

Thank you for the nice compilation of everything Khanid.

A lot of people who are new to Khanid, including myself, will find this extremely helpful.

Posted - 2007.02.11 23:45:00 - [7]

 

There were hot debates regarding the Khanid bloodline before they were introduced. This post from Talisman calmed down some tensions.

Regarding to Talisman the commander of the campaign against the nation (Khanid bloodline) is the ancestor of the family that now is known as the Khanid family. So the true amarrian Khanid family once had a different name but adopted the Khanid name as their own, winning the hearts of the Khanid people in the process.

The Khanid people must have been conquered somewhere inbetween 20022AD and 20544Ad. Most likely between 20371AD after the last Udorian state was conquered and 20544AD because the descriptions at Khanid char creation talk about Khanid soldiers at the forefront during the Reclaiming against Ealur, Ni-Kunni and Minmatar but not about that they have fought against Udorians.

This happened 2800 years ago, 750years before the first amarrian stargate to Hedion was built. I assume in the following 1500 years, before the Khanid Kingdom split from the Empire, Amarrians, Udorians and Khanid together colonized and conquered new planets. The Ni-Kunni followed at a later stage. I assume the vast majority of people of the Khanid bloodline are in the Empire while the 'Khanid to true Amarr ratio' is higher within the Khanid Kingdom. I aslo assume the 'Ni-Kunni to true Amarr ratio' is slightly higher within the Khanid Kingdom because of the location of the Ni-Kunni's home planet.

The caste system and the status of not true Amarrians in society is also a very hot discussion. We know that true Amarrians, even former Holders, can become slaves. We also know that the udorian Tash-Murkon family managed to buy themselves to the very top with a 1:5 chance to place the next Emperor/Empress into service. We also know that the Heir status which was given by Heideran (Kador) to the Tash-Murkon family was questioned by Uriam Kador because of their non true amarrian ancestry. The amarrian society is torn apart between traditional values and modern times. This is an on going / up to date conflict that is happening now. Personally I assume there are many Khanid and Udorian Holders, a few Ni-Kunni Holders but the vast majority still is in the hands of true amarrian Holders - in the Kingdom and in the Empire.

I do believe CCP enjoys it to give us always two truths to create discussions, to create tensions. Otherwise it would be boring for us.

When it comes to better relationships towards other Empires it is again difficult. In the past the Khanid Kingdom had better relations with Caldari cpmpared to the Empire but not with Gallente and Minmatar. I assume the good relationship towards Caldari was a must because the Khanid Kingdom had not all resources themselves and needed outside trade. The Caldari on the other hand could provide everything and gained a potential ally against the Gallente. Many shares of Khanid corporations are owned by Caldari. After the death of Doriam things changed. Now the Caldari like the Amarr Empire better while the Amarr Empire ceased friendship with the Gallente. The trade routes between Caldari and Khanid Kingdom remain a mystery. At a time when Kingdom and Empire still were hostile against each other the only explanation I have found is a secret stargate that connects Caldari with the Kingdom.

The worst example of CCP loving to provide two opposite truths is: the Khanid Kingdom is a mirror of the empire with discreet differences, caste system intact, religion and slavery very much alike, only difference being the lack of checks-and-balances, more open minded towards new tech and cloning but on the other hand also wholeheartedly embracing the customs of others, mainly the Caldari so that it looks like a surreal mix of the Amarr and Caldari.

Posted - 2007.02.17 20:30:00 - [9]

 

Thank you Celes, for compiling all the various sources - and for seeking some semblance of understanding of the whole milieu: was wondering why new players were commenting that the Khanid are more liberal than the Amarr, religiously, and now i finally understand the source...CCP.

http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/aug03.asp is an important link, because we used to base much of our (pre-Khanid bloodline) roleplay using this page as primary source ...I've just noted recently that after the race was introduced, the above URL underwent some revisions...it used to state that the entire Khanidian region was even more ultra-orthodox (am paraphrasing), religiously, then its Amarrian parents...

The last paragraph (of above URL) was added after the race was introduced (Arderich, do you have a copy of the original - i wish i did), I daresay the religious references were modified...it still contains the following statements which i think are important to note (thus contradicting other statements by new players, espousing milder beliefs on slavery and subjugation)

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In fact, the kingdom takes slavery even further than the empire. The Amarr Empire uses almost exclusively Minmatar and Ealur slaves, but the kingdom, denied many of their traditional slave sources, take slaves wherever they can find them. Khanid himself has a Gallentean - a former pop-star - as his personal slave, something he finds highly amusing but makes the Gallenteans frothing at their mouths.

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The above leads one to infer that there are, perhaps, even Khanidian (bloodline) slaves remaining, just as there are still a few NiKunni slaves (of course the last statement is pure conjecture)...one might also assume that the Amarrian bloodline holders in Khanid are more zealous than the race of Khanidians...

Let's please also not forget the fact that, King Khanid and the Kingdom, harbored the St Tetrimon cult from religious persecution from the Empire, as stated here: http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/27-aug-04.asp

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The Order of St Tetrimon survived in small groups, often finding themselves at odds with the Theology Council and the Privy Council, but still openly carrying out their work of preserving the original liturgical records of the Amarr faith. In 22762, with the breakup of the Empire and the forming of the Khanid Kingdom, the Emperor issued a decree suppressing the Order of St Tetrimon, asserting that he did so to maintain peace and tranquility within the Empire. Tetrimon houses and colleges everywhere were seized by the local authorities. Some Order members were imprisoned; some were driven into exile. The Grand Master of the Order, Lozera Riana, was declared a heretic and imprisoned in the holy city of Dam-Torsad, where he died two years later.

The Order remained active in the Khanid Kingdom where Khanid II, for his own political reasons, would not allow the Imperial decree to take full effect. There were also accusations laid against both the Sarum and Ardishapur families concerning secret support for the Order, but they retained enough power in the Privy Council to ignore these accusations.

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You will note that House Khanid was much more in alignment with the conservative and ultraorthodox houses of Ardishapur and Sarum, rather than the liberal houses. when it came to the serious topic of Scriptoral Truth.. which was another source that led me to believe that the House Khanid was much more conservative than its Amarrian counterparts... though i do now see how there could be differences of opinion between the Holding House (House Khanid, an Amarrian family), the race of "Lordlings", and of course any foreign citizens (esp. Khaldari) that inhabit the Kingdom.

Posted - 2009.02.26 16:52:00 - [11]

 

As you can see from Zan's "Letters Home", which was my attempt at the time to make some sense from the hash of Khanid's backstory, he tends to see the Kingdom shaped by Khanid culture and Khanid culture is described as less religious, with the exception of the Zealot faction, and more ready to adopt technologies such as Caldari armaments or cybernetics than the rank and file Imperial Amarrian.

My focus was on the Cyberknight perspective as opposed to the Unionists or the Zealots.

The more I read the more I saw a tradition of secrecy and elitism when dealing technology in Amarrian society. What technological expertise Amarr had looked to be atrophying based on the descriptions of the backwards state of the Amarr navy. A description of an Amarr cybernetics firm stated that their traditional clients weren't pleased with the idea of either non-Amarr or foreigners (a key phrasing as foreigners are non-Amarr by definition so explicitly stating both speaks to non-Amarr natives) using cybernetics.

Contrast this to the non-Amarr Khanid cyberknights and the Black Fleet.

The naming of House Khanid also seemed very important to me and this led me to believe that there's some kind of deep bond of trust and loyalty between the True Amarr of House Khanid and the Khanid people. The leaders of the Khanid people are probably best represented by the Cyberknights given, well, they're evidently "knights".

Then the actual roleplay I was witnessing from some Amarr players got me to thinking that very few proud people from a warrior tradition would put up with that kind of lip for long. That might explain why they'd gravitate to the one House, in particular, that's historically shown them unusual deference.

The Khanid are different. Not only the Knights but the Zealots. They're described as having a theosophical approach to the sublime - that's mysticism. That's mainlining Truth from God's lips without the need for vast dusty tomes. Sure, some Amarrian theologians might find insights there but many others would find that kind of...unconventional independence disturbing considering how central faith is to governance in Amarr and how ritualistic and hide-bound it is.

Oh, and that's considered the upside of the Zealots. The downside is they're prone to joining fanatical cults.

Zan tends to think of the Zealots as followers of Tetrimon and other Amarrian fringe groups. They're not mainstream racial Khanid. He believes King Khanid takes a more open approach to everything in order to thrive - that means accepting both religious fanatics and secular technocrats as long as they all remember who the boss is while they're on his turf.

Khanid II, in Zan's eyes, is a pragmatist as are his own people. When the ancient Amarrians overran the Khanid homelands the Khanid adopted their ways. The Amarrian way isn't working out as splendidly as it used to so the Khanid, and their compatriots in House Khanid, began adapting new technologies and schemes.

The Black Fleet didn't happen overnight. Khanid II, assuming those ships were in evidence during his revolt, must have been planning something like this for a while...

Posted - 2009.02.27 12:16:00 - [13]

 

Edited by: Zan Maruke on 27/02/2009 12:50:15
The problem we all have is a lack of information.

Did the Black Fleet exist before or after the secession? If before we can assume some forethought to Khanid II's actions when he made his move. The fact half of the Imperial fleet itself followed him, complete with a Titan, suggests the ostensibly Imperal forces under his command weren't precisely shocked or scandalized by this turn of events. And how many of those may have been the racial-Khanid elite his own House was named for?

Have the Khanid people really ever followed any other House but House Khanid (this is a common assuption but a canonically unfounded one and one I don't share)?

We know the Kingdom follows some version(s) of the Amarrian faith but given how Orthodox Amarrians all but worship The Empire as God's own hand how do the Khanid people, and others, of The Kingdom frame their faith? How do the assorted radical sects get along with mainstream Kingdom beliefs and the influx of Caldari secularism?

My personal interpretation of the last is that most Khanid are devout but not preoccupied by religion. They follow a less fundamentalist version of the Amarrian faith, one that can accept other cultures and free use of technology more easily, and one that switches King for Emperor as an object of admiration. Radical sects tend to be more walled off from daily society, working their own lands like feudal monestaries or in contemplative isolation like anchorites, and fulfill specific feudal duties to The Crown in return for the right to stay, safely, in The Kingdom and protected from the Amarrian Inquisition for thier beliefs. The Sect of Tetrimon, for example, was a source of religious propaganda and terrifyingly fanatic warriors which gave the "Dark Amarr" their reputation - but they were on a leash and served a purpose. They didn't run the show.

Posted - 2009.03.03 18:55:00 - [15]

 

Edited by: Mithfindel on 03/03/2009 19:11:01
I'll comment a bit. On most parts I assume you're meaning Khanid in the Khanid Kingdom.

Originally by: Kimochi Rendar

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What I'm most interested in is their culture. What would life be like, living as a Khanid? What are their religious beliefs? What pastimes do they enjoy, what are their cities like, what do things like food, music and family mean to them etc etc. These are all the things that add flavour to the other races, and while we have a good deal of information about the origins of the Khanid Kingdom and who it's friends and enemies are, there is very little on what exactly makes them tick.

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There's very little information of the sociology, except that they do have some concept of chivalry and apparently make some of the finest infantry in the cluster (or just otherwise have been willing to fight in the front of the Reclaiming).

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- They consider themselves a separate entity from the Amarr Empire, yet still retain a caste system that clearly separates the rich from the poor.

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I wouldn't personally use to word caste (as caste would imply separation by profession) as the system might be slightly more complex. In Amarr style the system might also be at least nominally backed by religion, even if they are more secular on the average than the Amarr. On the alternate ends of the scale, many Khanid are faithful subjects of the Empire. Then there's a NPC group called Brotherhood of Athra, which is considered to be a secessionist terrorist group by the Empire.

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- They have also retained their belief in the Amarrian religion to some extent, but without direct access to the Scriptures it's likely that their method of worship has changed fundamentally. Without any details on this it's difficult to clarify what exact changes have taken place, but I like to think that it's not as 'all encompassing' as with the Amarr.

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It is worth noting that the concept of "Scripture" for Amarr is something different than we think they are. The Tetrimon Order, for example, had several industrial-loads of their remembrance kept safe from Theology Council prosecution in Khanid space. The Khanid and the Amarr likely share a good amount of Scripture (say, a few hundred petabytes worth of plain-text - for comparison, the KJV Bible takes roughly 1.2 MB in plain text) but the parts of the Amarr canon which back the Emperor are likely interpreted differently in Khanid church - to back the King and his secession. There are loads of things in the Scripture that are common, though - for example, all the older canonical science and engineering databases. Naturally, the Khanid living in the Empire do follow Amarr canon and rites - I find it likely that even the "secular" people in the Empire attend some sort of service regularly to show they're good subjects of the Empire.

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- They throw themselves whole-heartedly into what they do believe in, resulting in some frighteningly extremist behaviour from individuals who decide that the quiet life isn't for them...

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And that was why I did state "on the average" earlier. The most Khanid aren't religious, but the ones that are tend to be pretty extreme.