Posted - 2007.04.11 14:14:00 - [31]

 

Get rid of jump gates - really think about it before jumping to the "omg that will kill PVP"

Related thread and ideas ...

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=477651

Posted - 2007.04.11 15:25:00 - [33]

 

Originally by: Blue Pixie

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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Edited by: Le Skunk on 11/04/2007 05:06:17
Edited by: Le Skunk on 11/04/2007 05:05:08

Originally by: Blue Pixie

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This isn't necessarily a dig at Privateers, but in my observation, a bulk of wars in Empire are initiated by larger, wealthier and more experienced corps against smaller, significantly less experienced corps. Why? The reasons vary I'm sure, but the most obvious appears to be some people like one-sided fights they're almost certain to win.

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Im glad that isnt a dig at us because its TOTALLY the opposite of our situation

1) We have 700 pilots vs a combined 15000 (est)
2) We have FAR less isk then the major alliances (t2bpos, bugged complex farming, best roids, best rats, outposts)
3) We are a new alliance (4 months odd) compared to the established guys we dec

We join to ensure fights NOT unfair fights, but im perfectly happy too and regulaly engage superior odds just for the kicks. I prefer a decent 3 v 3 fight but if im on a gate with 9 guys and a lone BS jumps in what you want me to do ... shout

"NOBODY MAY FIRE BUT ME ... AND I WILL ONLY USE 4 OF MY 5 DRONES TO ENSURE ABSOLUTE FAIRNESS. "

Of course not.

Unfair fights? The few times ive been killed in 0.0 its been because you jump into a warp bubble, mulit insta webbed, and are shot to pieces by 30 guys on the gate. There is ABSOLUTLY NO WAY TO ESCAPE such a scenario unless i want to trawl around with 50 other guys, effectivly operating as a fleet commanders extended drone bay ("go here - align here - wait - jump - target him - wait - get loot - jump YAWN").

The privatter alliance in empire give all people a sporting chance by not employing warp bubbles - meaning with some skills, some forethought, and some courage - anyone has a sporting chance to escape - now THATS bloody fair.

SKUNK

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I'm not going to call you out personally or point fingers, but I will say this much. In my opinion, your alliance's choice to war dec EVE University was cheap.

You can say they're a large corp, that they have experienced members, or even that they belong to an Alliance. I don't care. I still think it was cheap.

Frankly, it's almost in the same category of lameness as camping tutorial deadspace zones.

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Frankly, the all encomposing patronising attitude to Eve Uni 'students' i often hear, astounds me and should offend any student.

1) We will dec practiclay anything. We dec BoB, we dec the Eve Uni. If someone pays for it then.... Maybe they got a bunch of agrieved students who were expelled.. i dont know.

2) As was recently posted in the log in client news, We do take notice of the E-Unis role and do give them special dispensation by not decing them for sustained periods.

3) ENUI management have welcomed the OCCASIONAL war dec as giving practical experience without disrupting classes to much

4) Ive had corrospondance with many students who have said that the war dec was the best time theve had so far and has kept them in the game

5) And this is the kicker. Eve University have coped with our war dec FAR BETTER then most of other alliances we have decced. They protect their home system, the instructors (bored rich player)bring expensive ships backed up by numbers of 'noober' players out to fight. They are well drilled and follow orders generally

6) Students get a lot of their losses replaced.


SO STOP THE PATRONISING AND INSULTING 'PAT ON THE HEAD' ATTITUDE TO THE EUNI.

SKUNK

"im frightned of the noobs"

Posted - 2007.04.11 18:58:00 - [35]

 

Originally by: Amphetaminer

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Edited by: Amphetaminer on 11/04/2007 14:04:02

Originally by: MissileRus

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Edited by: MissileRus on 11/04/2007 11:53:01
Edited by: MissileRus on 11/04/2007 11:46:17


edit: lol @ counterstrike! Doom back in the old days were more challanging pvp if were gonna be like that sure not as nice grafix but exactly the same more or less, just make a mod where you place bombs and its a replica..

complexity can never be compared with eve and counterstrike, or any other game for that matter. if you want a simple pvp game go and play it, cant say pvp sucks in this game only because you cant target your lazers manualy, its sad if thats all pvp is to you.

i can realy understand how booring blobb pvp can be, thats why i never bothered with it, i dont have 50 buddies behind my back, i dont have reports of hostiles etc etc. that would be so booring that i would whine about pvp sucking on teh forum and start talking about how counterstrike is soo mutch better.. its lol! make your own experience! eve gives you the tools unlike other mmos. some get excited in different ways, if you need manual targeting to get excited and rewarded keep playing your CS, but never say something as dumb as pvp in eve sucks.. nothing compares to it or have ever gotten close to eves pvp

but yea the butt has 2 sides.. eve isnt for everyone err i mean some get stuck in teh middle..

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im talking about skill.. there is no skill involved in PVP in eve.. you read on the forum wich is the ultimate set up.. You fly towards your target you click target and shoot.. He dies or you die.. There is nothing you can do that will change the outcome. Training battleship 5 takes no skill but it will give you the edge over others.. A 2003 player can be a complete moron but will win the fights because he has better skills. And it took him no "real life skills" to get these "ingame" skills. That is why imo EVE pvp sucks. In other games with no lvl cap you can win battles by being higher lvl wich takes at least some "real life" skills/work to attain.

If EVE wasnt such a gank fest. Then people would be more willing to use very expensive ships + set ups for pvp. Getting lots of ISK still takes some skill. Then PVP would be alot more fun and not so much depending on skills wich take no work to gain. If gatecamping where to be stopped i think battle's would get alot more fun.

edit: but to be honest this would also just get ruined by idiots that spend real life cash to get ISK, so again it would take no skill whatsoever... sigh

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That's a pretty simplistic view of it. Most MMO's suffer from the same mechanic but that's due to the sheer amount of data traffic it would require for, say, free-flight in Eve using joysticks or aimed firing using same. Most computer games have less to do with "skill" than with how deep the antagonists understanding of the game runs. A three-year veteran flying a HAC can take out a newb in a battleship in many cases, like a fully faction-fitted Ishtar up against a total newb who's shield-tanking a megathron.

Posted - 2007.04.11 20:59:00 - [37]

 

Originally by: Del Narveux

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Im going to have to agree that deccing Ivy League is what turned most people against privs, it was definitely a bad PR move. Even if your intention wasnt to gank 2 week old newbies, thats how you guys are now perceived by a whole lot of people (remember, a lot of longtime eve players started off in eve-u).

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You know, I keep hearing people jump up to defend Eve-Uni, which I find commendable, but I have to admit.... they do a find job defending themselves. I hate fighting against them, it's a death trap when that blob comes through.

A typical Eve-Uni fleet that I see consists of
2 or 3 vets of 2004/2003 in battleships, generally some excellent ECM too
About a half dozen veteran cruisers, 2005-2006 players
Then 20+ new player frigates, each with a sensor dampner.
It is viciously difficult to fight that group head on, short ranged ships WILL die against it, no question at all. The noobs may not have the skillpoints, but they are well instructed and well led. I don't consider them a weak alliance at all.

Plus, remember, most of our war-decs are paid by outside groups. We don't just randomly declare against folks, we are contracted to do so.

Posted - 2007.04.11 22:02:00 - [39]

 

Edited by: Destrel on 12/04/2007 18:16:43
I just want to say **** PA for not redeccing. I was just starting to get some kills

Next time I'm in an intie instead of a pod-locking sensor-boosted Incursus. See you in space

/me forwards 50 mil to alt to pay for another dec

PS: YARR

PPS: I probably shouldn't be warmongering for the Uni. But it was good fun. So, your mother was a window dresser and all that.

Posted - 2007.04.11 22:20:00 - [41]

 

Edited by: Tremitry Darkstar on 11/04/2007 22:17:39

Originally by: Destrel

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I just want to say **** PA for not redeccing. I was just starting to get some kills

Next time I'm in an intie instead of a pod-locking sensor-boosted Incursus. See you in space :P

/me forwards 50 mil to alt to pay for another dec

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ROFL!

I'm just a noob, but you will likely find that a great deal of the students welcome the bi-monthly (or so) wardec from PA. PvP is an essential part of EVE if you plan to do anything related to player-owned corporations, and this isn't something that can be taught in a class or covered in a lecture, yet is still a core piece of gameplay that needs to be learned. The fact that PA does not extend their decs with us allows us to resume what the Uni does - teach.

So... while I appreciate the protective nature that some people have taken with IVY, it's not really necessary.

If an alliance decided to dec us for multiple weeks at a time, however... then there'd be some issues.

Just my personal two cents....

Oh, and I'll make sure I'm around for the next war

Posted - 2007.04.12 00:58:00 - [43]

 

Edited by: Infinity MKII on 12/04/2007 00:55:41

Originally by: Del Narveux

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Im going to have to agree that deccing Ivy League is what turned most people against privs, it was definitely a bad PR move. Even if your intention wasnt to gank 2 week old newbies, thats how you guys are now perceived by a whole lot of people (remember, a lot of longtime eve players started off in eve-u).

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The initial declaring of war against Ivy League was entirely my idea and when I posted my intentions in corp chat (no alliance then) it wasnt met with much enthusiam because it was seen as mean even by Privateers pilots. However when I declared, I received mail from the Ivy CEO or an officer, cant quite remember, which basically said they didnt mind and after the war Ivy suggested in another mail and on the forums that Privateers should make it a regular event.

Given that people dont know this I can see your point of view however in light of this revelation, you can see that subsequent declarations are not griefing since Ivy suggested repeats of the first war themselves.

Infinity Ziona

Posted - 2007.04.12 09:00:00 - [45]

 

Originally by: Le Skunk

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Frankly, the all encomposing patronising attitude to Eve Uni 'students' i often hear, astounds me and should offend any student.

1) We will dec practiclay anything. We dec BoB, we dec the Eve Uni. If someone pays for it then.... Maybe they got a bunch of agrieved students who were expelled.. i dont know.

2) As was recently posted in the log in client news, We do take notice of the E-Unis role and do give them special dispensation by not decing them for sustained periods.

3) ENUI management have welcomed the OCCASIONAL war dec as giving practical experience without disrupting classes to much

4) Ive had corrospondance with many students who have said that the war dec was the best time theve had so far and has kept them in the game

5) And this is the kicker. Eve University have coped with our war dec FAR BETTER then most of other alliances we have decced. They protect their home system, the instructors (bored rich player)bring expensive ships backed up by numbers of 'noober' players out to fight. They are well drilled and follow orders generally

6) Students get a lot of their losses replaced.


SO STOP THE PATRONISING AND INSULTING 'PAT ON THE HEAD' ATTITUDE TO THE EUNI.

SKUNK

"im frightned of the noobs"

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I think that the overall view at IVY on our recent week of war has been that the "students" have enjoyed it. It's been great "practical experience" and we've had people running roving patrols and small gangs in a live fire environment that we only get the opportunity to do during war time. I am proud of the achievements and enthusiasm of our "students" and our more experienced pilots who are now moving into instrucor and mentor roles.

The Uni supports it's newer players so they aren't generally out of pocket with losses and every war we have been involved with is put forward to our members as a great opportunity to gain some experience - and those newer members invariably start frothing at the mouth and transform into a scarily bloodthirsty lot for the week! I might object to being described as rich (I'm not) and bored (I'm not - I am really enjoying being an instructor at EVE Uni and doing something different in the game). :)

Fights in the war just ended have generally been smack free and they've generally been courteous in local. A number of the Privateers corps have come out of the recent war with a lot of respect from us for the way they carry themselves. Some of them haven't but that's the nature of Privateers' open door policy - they have all sorts and I personally don’t have a problem with that.

Also, fights have generally been just that…proper fights and not gankings - yes we've had pilots caught at gates and shot and we have standing orders to avoid visiting Jita during a war (to be honest, I try and avoid Jita at all costs all of the time!), we've also caught privateer pilots solo as well and you might describe some of the killmails I've seen as ganks - there is one poor rifter pilot that I almost felt sorry for! But the point is that I don’t feel we've been "griefed" or that what Privateers do amounts to that or any abuse of the system.

It'd be wrong to say I was looking forward to another war soon - I'm not as it disrupts the Uni's main business of providing a supportive environment to experience all aspects of the game. We do appreciate the fact that wars tend to be short as it does stop us teaching more peaceful classes. I'm looking forward to getting back to badgering instructors and sorting out the class schedule and maybe teaching a few myself. However, when another war does come along, we'll jump back into our ships and look after ourselves as we always do.

Fin