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Crane Blockade runner needs +4 powergrid.

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James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:53:00 - [1] Edited by: James Lyrus on 22/02/2008 09:24:51 Cranes (as with all blockade runners) got noticably improved in the most recent patch. This makes me happy, because as a concept I love the idea, and I really like the Crane. But... Any chance of just a few more powergrid? This ship has _exactly_ the right grid to fit a MWD. Which means grid mods are needed, to fit anything at all in midslots. (3 remaining). Please could we have just 5 more grid on this ship? heck, 3 would be enough. Crane - Base grid 120 (150 with Eng 5) - 2 lows Prowler - base grid 130 (162.5)- 2 lows Viator - base grid 135 (168.75) - 3 lows Prorator - base 150 grid (187.5), 4 lows Which means every Blockade Runner except the crane, can fill their slots with 'low powergrid' modules (e.g. hardeners, cap mods, speed mods) _and_ fit a T1 MWD. Viator and Prorator can fit a 10mn MWD II and still do the same. The Crane's the slowest and heaviest blockade runner, with the least lowslots already. It doesn't really need the additional handicap of having to use a PDS II to fit 3 shield hardners. (Or heaven forbid, a PDS II _and_ an RCU to squeeze a MWD II on there, and fill the mids). 4 powergrid would make all the difference to this ship. 16 would be even better, because then I can fit a MWD II, 3 hardeners _and a cloak_. The Viator and Prorator can both fit a MWD II, Cloak, and fill their mids with '1 grid' mods. Although there's a good case to be made for being able to fill lows + mids with 1 grid mods, for hardeners. (Since speed mods are 0 power grid, but hardeners aren't) Please, if blockade runners are supposed to be MWD capable, can they please _all_ be MWD capable, without requiring low slots on those with least to spare. (This is a repost of this thread because this might be the more appropriate location)
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:58:00 - [2] Signed, untill now i always needed a PDU in order to fill the mids after a MWD :(
Damneia Achernius Drop of Blood	Posted - 2007.09.10 11:20:00 - [3] i stoped flying crane and trained amarr transports just because of the PG issue :(
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.10 14:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Damneia Achernius i stoped flying crane and trained amarr transports just because of the PG issue :( I'm considering it. I like the Crane, but having to stretch that hard to get a MWD on, really does make me consider the slog to _another_ indy 5
Chejun Ishari	Posted - 2007.09.10 15:21:00 - [5] Signed... Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2007.09.10 15:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Damneia Achernius i stoped flying crane and trained amarr transports just because of the PG issue :( Yes, most PG and lowslots. Not mentioning best looking freighter. :) Originally by: Chejun Ishari Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity. /Signed.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.10 18:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Chejun Ishari Signed... Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity. I'm also unconvinced about the repair or boosting bonuses that the Blockade runners have - DSTs, yeah, tank 'em up. Blockade runners though, just... hmmm. No there's not really any situations where a shield booster will be useful. Perhaps a resists or just plain armour (or shield) HP bonus would work better. More suited to the 'run like hell'. +1 WCS/level would also work fairly well, although it would mean that you'd be able to get 9 points of stabs on a prorator. shrug there's more general design problems with blockade runners, but the most recent agility fix has done a _lot_ of good at improving that situation. It's just the Crane suffering a bit at the moment, because of the 'MWD issue'.
madaluap Gallente Anthrax Foundation	Posted - 2007.09.10 19:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Chejun Ishari Signed... Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity. I agree, if you need to active tank on a blockade runner/deep space transport, you are doing something wrong. Extra stabstrenght/lvl and more armor/shield capacity is tbh the perfect boost. And giving the crane 5 units of extra pg will actually make it decent.
Karash Amerius Evolution	Posted - 2007.09.10 19:55:00 - [9] rigs
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2007.09.10 20:24:00 - [10] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Chejun Ishari Signed... Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity. I agree, if you need to active tank on a blockade runner/deep space transport, you are doing something wrong. Extra stabstrenght/lvl and more armor/shield capacity is tbh the perfect boost. And giving the crane 5 units of extra pg will actually make it decent. Agreed.
Ezekial Crow Gallente Failed Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.09.10 20:27:00 - [11] Correction, the Prowler has two low slots. Its hard to fit the thing if you want a mwd and shield extenders.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Karash Amerius rigs You are indeed correct that it's possible to use rigs to fit your Crane. Or you could use a PDU or RCU. Or you could use one of those powergrid implants. However, you _don't_ for any of the other blockade runners. If inclined to fit rigs, then there's also several other rigs that make it quite useful to do it's job, including not least stuffing some polycarbons on there. Or you could go and acquire some 10mn Digital Booster rockets, which are only 135 grid. But ... well, they're a little challenging to acquire, and thus ... well, I couldn't actually see any, so I have no idea what they go for. However, this is not the point. The point is, the Crane has 2 lowslots, and 150 grid. A MWD takes 150 grid, even if you use dead space or faction - the _only_ option is an unusual cosmos one. The Crane is the only blockade runner that needs fittings mods to get a MWD and fill its midslots with 1 powergrid modules. It's also the blockade runner with the fewest lowslots to spare - I'll not dispute it being the heaviest and the slowest, as that seems to be the trend with Caldari ships, but to be the heaviest, slowest, _and_ have to sacrifice a lowslot (or rig slot, as you so eloquently point out) seems somehow just a little too much. This is, of course, assuming that you _need_ a MWD on your blockade runner for it to do it's job. I do. I also really would like to have something else on my ship, than a MWD and 2 nanofibers. It just seems so very wrong to be leaving slots entirely empty, because quite literally nothing will fit.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.10 21:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Ezekial Crow Correction, the Prowler has two low slots. Its hard to fit the thing if you want a mwd and shield extenders. I stand corrected. I wouldn't mind so much having trouble squeezing extenders on the Crane. I do feel bitter though, about having trouble fitting shield hardeners, due to being constrained by powergrid. (Or anything else for that matter. There's remarkably little that you can put in a mid, that uses no powergrid at all, and lets not even start on that highslot)
Aramendel Amarr North Face Force	Posted - 2007.09.11 07:06:00 - [14] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Ezekial Crow Correction, the Prowler has two low slots. Its hard to fit the thing if you want a mwd and shield extenders. I stand corrected. I wouldn't mind so much having trouble squeezing extenders on the Crane. I do feel bitter though, about having trouble fitting shield hardeners, due to being constrained by powergrid. (Or anything else for that matter. There's remarkably little that you can put in a mid, that uses no powergrid at all, and lets not even start on that highslot) Seesh, we already told you that 2-3 times in the old thread
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.12 20:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Ezekial Crow Correction, the Prowler has two low slots. Its hard to fit the thing if you want a mwd and shield extenders. I stand corrected. I wouldn't mind so much having trouble squeezing extenders on the Crane. I do feel bitter though, about having trouble fitting shield hardeners, due to being constrained by powergrid. (Or anything else for that matter. There's remarkably little that you can put in a mid, that uses no powergrid at all, and lets not even start on that highslot) Seesh, we already told you that 2-3 times in the old thread Yeah, I know. In hindsight though, it got my thread bumped. Maybe I should make more deliberate errors next time :)
Chejun Ishari	Posted - 2007.09.13 14:46:00 - [16] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Chejun Ishari Signed... Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity. I'm also unconvinced about the repair or boosting bonuses that the Blockade runners have - DSTs, yeah, tank 'em up. Blockade runners though, just... hmmm. No there's not really any situations where a shield booster will be useful. Perhaps a resists or just plain armour (or shield) HP bonus would work better. More suited to the 'run like hell'. +1 WCS/level would also work fairly well, although it would mean that you'd be able to get 9 points of stabs on a prorator. shrug there's more general design problems with blockade runners, but the most recent agility fix has done a _lot_ of good at improving that situation. It's just the Crane suffering a bit at the moment, because of the 'MWD issue'. I don't really see the point of 9 stab points on a prolator. Getting 9 points would mean maxing the transport skill and putting lows full of Stabs. A bubble will still hold you and you might be better off fitting istabs or nanos in lows. As it is I don't see the point of training transport past level 1.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.14 06:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Chejun Ishari Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Chejun Ishari Signed... Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity. I'm also unconvinced about the repair or boosting bonuses that the Blockade runners have - DSTs, yeah, tank 'em up. Blockade runners though, just... hmmm. No there's not really any situations where a shield booster will be useful. Perhaps a resists or just plain armour (or shield) HP bonus would work better. More suited to the 'run like hell'. +1 WCS/level would also work fairly well, although it would mean that you'd be able to get 9 points of stabs on a prorator. shrug there's more general design problems with blockade runners, but the most recent agility fix has done a _lot_ of good at improving that situation. It's just the Crane suffering a bit at the moment, because of the 'MWD issue'. I don't really see the point of 9 stab points on a prolator. Getting 9 points would mean maxing the transport skill and putting lows full of Stabs. A bubble will still hold you and you might be better off fitting istabs or nanos in lows. As it is I don't see the point of training transport past level 1. Well, you're correct. But ... at least the 'more stabs' bonus would actaully be more worth training than currently. I mean, as you say, there's really not a lot of point pushing to transport ships >1, because that tanking bonus is just a complete waste - if you're tanking, you're already screwed. It's -marginally- more useful on the DSTs but there's not that much in it.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:03:00 - [18] Well, I guess with upcoming new ships, this might be a useful addition?
Chejun Ishari	Posted - 2007.09.20 09:00:00 - [19] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Chejun Ishari Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Chejun Ishari Signed... Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity. I'm also unconvinced about the repair or boosting bonuses that the Blockade runners have - DSTs, yeah, tank 'em up. Blockade runners though, just... hmmm. No there's not really any situations where a shield booster will be useful. Perhaps a resists or just plain armour (or shield) HP bonus would work better. More suited to the 'run like hell'. +1 WCS/level would also work fairly well, although it would mean that you'd be able to get 9 points of stabs on a prorator. shrug there's more general design problems with blockade runners, but the most recent agility fix has done a _lot_ of good at improving that situation. It's just the Crane suffering a bit at the moment, because of the 'MWD issue'. I don't really see the point of 9 stab points on a prolator. Getting 9 points would mean maxing the transport skill and putting lows full of Stabs. A bubble will still hold you and you might be better off fitting istabs or nanos in lows. As it is I don't see the point of training transport past level 1. Well, you're correct. But ... at least the 'more stabs' bonus would actaully be more worth training than currently. I mean, as you say, there's really not a lot of point pushing to transport ships >1, because that tanking bonus is just a complete waste - if you're tanking, you're already screwed. It's -marginally- more useful on the DSTs but there's not that much in it. I think what I said was phrased a little too ambiguous and you misunderstood. Sorry. What I meant is that I DON'T see A PROBLEM with 9 points of stabs which would be achievable on a prolator with "+1 warpcore streght per lvl transport ship" and lows full of stabs. If you already have a base warpcore strenght of +4 or +5, people would hardly waste any lows on stabs. The only realistic way to tackle a blockade runner would be a bubble camp or a dictor which is the way it should be IMO. Even then it should have an ok chance to make an escape, i.e. ne able to fit an MWD (hence you original suggestion of boosting the crane's grid, which I fully support!).
Lobster Man Metafarmers	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:09:00 - [20] I don't know about the +1 wcs/level deal, but the current bonuses to transports are pretty useless (blockade runners at least). I use the hell out of my viator yet I only have transports lvl1. A blockade runner is supposed to be fast, not rep fast. If I'm taking damage I'm probably already screwed.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:50:00 - [21] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 20/09/2007 10:52:50 Originally by: Lobster Man I don't know about the +1 wcs/level deal, but the current bonuses to transports are pretty useless (blockade runners at least). I use the hell out of my viator yet I only have transports lvl1. A blockade runner is supposed to be fast, not rep fast. If I'm taking damage I'm probably already screwed. Yeah, at the moment training Transports above level is a bit useless for the blockade runners. Even if you wanted to armor tank a Viator, just try fitting an MWD + armor rep on it gridwise. Something other than the current bonus would be good, imho. Maybe more resists per level, or smalled sigrad per level, or something. Have to say I otherwise love my Viator (with rigs). Gets into warp quickly, warps fast, moves at about 3km/sec, needs lots of points of scramble to hold down... lovely little ship.
Lord Eremet	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:22:00 - [22] Edited by: Lord Eremet on 20/09/2007 11:23:18 /signed. The crane really needs some love. Also the stupid transport ship bonuses on all 4 ships need to change. I see no reason why anyone would need to train them in their current form to more then level 1-2. /me waits for CCP to do some magic. //Erem
Arana Tellen Gallente Clan Death Corps	Posted - 2007.09.22 01:00:00 - [23] The 0.0 transports should be immune to ewar IMO, only bubbles should stop them, which is not that hard to do to be fair (I don't fly them but that seems sensible to me).
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.22 10:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Arana Tellen The 0.0 transports should be immune to ewar IMO, only bubbles should stop them, which is not that hard to do to be fair (I don't fly them but that seems sensible to me). I'm not so sure. I mean, we don't really need invulnerable winmobiles. I think something as simple as swapping their active tanking bonuses to a passive tanking bonus would do the trick on blockade runners in general. Shield/Armour HPs or resistances, I think would work quite nicely. I'd train transport 5 for 25% more resists on my Crane - it wouldn't save me from a serious camp, but it gives me just that little bit longer to burn clear, hit the gate or otherwise do something clever and funky. And of course, that little bit more grid on the Crane :)
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2007.09.22 12:01:00 - [25] yep sadly the caldari transports arn't very good at what they do, i'm seriously considering to switch 1 of my chars to gall or amarr transport, i think it's silly that the bustard while almost looking twice the size of the occator can't fit atleast as much cargo.
Dimitrius Zabelle	Posted - 2007.09.22 12:17:00 - [26] On the other hand, technically a Caldari transport can fit a light shield tank AND still fit WCS / Expanded Cargoholds... The armor tanked variants can only fit one or the other. While being able to fit the MWD i do agree is a must have, you need to be careful not to make them overpowered able to lightly tank, WCS and MWD at the same time.
Harlequ1n FireTech	Posted - 2007.09.26 12:24:00 - [27] Bumpity bump for the cause...
Lain Khazar Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.26 14:04:00 - [28] /signed Both to the PG-issue and to the ideas about the transport ship bonus. Atm I don't see the point in training transport ships further then level 1.
Karash Amerius Evolution	Posted - 2007.09.26 16:39:00 - [29] The PG doesnt bother me as much as the active shield tanking bonus which is balls useless.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.03 18:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Karash Amerius The PG doesnt bother me as much as the active shield tanking bonus which is balls useless. But all the blockade runners have a 'mostly worthless' tanking bonus. I agree, that that does actually need a look. But it's only the Crane that has this particular problem, which. The tanking bonus is an imbalance of the class itself, the Crane's powergrid I feel is an imbalance within the class.

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