Posted - 2008.04.08 10:50:00 - [92]

 

Edited by: Freiherr MinceR on 08/04/2008 10:51:16
on paper it sounds pretty good to me, BUT:
please please please make the isotopes still seperate. atm everybody with lots poses has also some capitals that use fuel too. so somewhere they have stockpiles of isotopes which they need for towers AND capitals. making the tower fuel useless for capitals would be a hugh downside of it. its atm a pain in the ass to get all the NPC items but i would prefer that, than having to fight with tower fuel and capital fuel seperate now.
without the isotopes we wouldnt need racial pellets, which would make live even more easy. and if today someone gets low on "enriched uranium" he can lend it from someone. the need of racial pellets would make live just harder cos he needs to lend it from someone with the same tower of the same race.
edit: typos

toodles

Posted - 2008.04.08 11:56:00 - [94]

 

FUEL RODS!

I like this idea, alot.
But this could easily create a manufacturing catastophy.
Already we see shortages on manufacturing slots, this is going to be a huge industry branch.

Make it build fast!

Posted - 2008.04.08 12:19:00 - [96]

 

Originally by: Varrakk

---

But this could easily create a manufacturing catastophy.

---

Make it POS based only.

Posted - 2008.04.08 23:51:00 - [98]

 

I’m not convinced.

Firstly, this does not actually solve the core problem of proportioning different fuels; it just moves it from the POS to a factory.

Secondly, it adds more complexity to the overall process.

You still have to get fuel in the given ratios. Is reducing the number of fuel types at the POS really worth yet another new industrial process to manage and several new item types? What about metagaming issues with blocking factory slots?

Thirdly, it treats part of the symptom while ignoring the underlying cause - a broken, incomplete UI.

I propose the fuel process UI should:

* Clearly state what maximum running time is possible with your tower and current fuel bonus,
* Let you set your desired running time (maybe with a slider or similar)
* Tell you how much of each type of fuel to add (or remove) for that running time, taking into account current CPU/PG load.

Fix the UI and the problem may go away.

Posted - 2008.04.09 23:05:00 - [100]

 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro

---

Also, preserving the current fuel ratios is easy. You just need to set the base consumption on a large tower to 320 pellets per hour instead of 80, and then all 18 configurations of tower will use an integer number of pellets per hour:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

This is the smallest possible such number, since 56 and 45 are coprime.

---

IDK, if his math is right, then do that. I dunno the numbers myself.

And definitely, all the existing powers should get a free conversion, maybe even rounding up a little to get rid of any excess.

As far as fuel in containers in stations/ships... I dunno.

Posted - 2008.04.10 08:19:00 - [102]

 

SOR (start of rant)
I'm just amazed that a dev thinks by adding an extra step it should make things easier.
This is a perfect example of how twisted the brains of devs work at making up these 'fantastic' yet unrealistic ideas. You'd might think they are being constantly drunk tbh. The last few years we've seen quite of these 'brilliant' ideas and the majority of them resulted in a more complicated game requiring more organizing and time. As well as adding bigger chances of 'breaking stuff' which consequently were 'repaired' by introducing even more complicated 'stuff'. Three cheers for 'Complicated online'.

In RL it wouldn't make sense to have a space station which acts like a tamagotchi needing fuel/materials. ISS can stay on line for a long time since it got huge solar panels. But then again the amount of power a POS needs is equivalent of the output of a thousand or so nuclear plants.
If you want to make it easier on the POS managers just introduce an extra fuel hangar which stores more fuel (not stront) so the POS can stay up for several weeks/months. And introduce a risk factor that these suckers can blow up at random. And of course this idea is plain wrong since it actually makes things easier for the players who are now playing 'Job online'.

EOR (end of rant)

Posted - 2008.04.10 12:23:00 - [104]

 

Fuel Rods (Inanimate Carbon Rods!)

I agree with others though, if this is introduced it will rapidly fill manufacturing slots (which are already limited). Is there the possibility for a POS module to be created, which turns the NPC goods into fuel pellets (something on the scale of a coupling array?).

Additionally, yes, the volume of the pellets should be less than the volume of component parts. As components will have to be shipped from market > factory, then factory > POS; the process should be as streamlined as possible.

Posted - 2008.04.11 12:05:00 - [106]

 

I like the idea of making POS fueling easier but i am not sure that it is worth it at the expense of making the whole process more long winded and complex.

If the fuel pellets/rods/packs/whatevers includes the isotopes then there will be a noticable increasin the cost of POS fueling as another manufactureing step and middle man is added. If the fuel pellets only include the NPC materials then costwise the impact is trivial (as only 15% of the fuel costs are tied up in the NPC goods).

If people are serious about making life simpler for the POS owner why not simply remove the requirement for the NPC goods.

Make the POS run on just the isotopes, heavy water and LO and make each of the other items optional with each enchancing an element of POS activities.

Something like;
Enriched Uranium bolsters the POS shield when present
Coolant/mech parts increases mining yield
Robitics speeds manufacture at the POS
Oxygen improves the speed of research
etc

(you could even make charters optional with CONCORD not responding to attacks on POS without charters)

Combine that with the fuel only being used per day (at DT) and a single warning being sent out if after the next days fuel is burnt there would be insufficient for the following, and life would be a little simpler.

POS could run with only the critical fuels and those people willing to put in the effort to sort out the others would be rewarded for it.

If increases in the POS capabilities is considered a problem for balance then the POS could run the relevent activities at a reduced rate when the relevant component was not present.

The ability to run a POS, even at reduced rate, with only the core, character mined fuel components would certainly make life simpler in 0.0, the NPC items would become desireable rather than essential.

Posted - 2008.04.13 02:43:00 - [108]

 

This is a great idea.

Impliment it ASAP!

Posted - 2008.04.14 20:04:00 - [110]

 

Fuel Pods/Rods/Cells/sticks/whatever No worries about the name. I'd prefer to have a generic fuel unit that I could put in any tower and supplement with the suitable Ice products.

As to the Fuel BPO, it really should start out with 0 Material waste, or maybe waste some trit if you must have waste in there. (If you can't lay hands on some trit, you really shouldn't be allowed out of a station) TIME efficiency, on the other hand, should be something that we can and should research. Even though we can research PE, it shouldn't be required to be able to produce these fuel units in a timely manner.

Oh, and by all means, do release the BPOs about a month before the changeover.

And if you want a RP reason for the switch, just mention that some Minmatar got a Jovian drunk and the idea slipped out, or he dropped a datachip while intoxicated. (High and mighty Jovians just can't handle a quart or three of cheap whiskey like the Minmatar can)

Posted - 2008.04.17 01:15:00 - [112]

 

I love this idea. But it isnt quite enough you need to make the NOW NPC supplied comodities player supplied add commodity BPO's to game and While we're at it make POS structure plyer built also

Posted - 2008.04.17 11:40:00 - [114]

 

hehe yeah, i did forget that lol

Posted - 2008.04.21 02:55:00 - [116]

 

Originally by: Maverick Ice

---

Why not just pay a fee and the POSes are refueled for an amount of time. That gets rid of the inconvenience, and keeps the ISK sink in place, and doesn't put any additional stresses on the Science and Industry sectors.

---

Sounds good at first but I feel like that makes it too easy. You can pay for fueling service today if you really want. It isnt just a raw isk sink either. It allows for a new type of player business.

I like the idea of the fuel rods. If you just made the ice refine into faction based fuel rods that would solve most of the problems. Fuel Rods become the commodity instead of all the other junk. Remove the robotic parts etc. from the equation all together.

Posted - 2008.04.22 07:15:00 - [118]

 

I love the idea,

however I would rather take a slight boost over a slight nerf.

Pellets Rods and the different sorts could be different size and grades, bigger the 'size' (materials used to make them + thier phsyical size) more 'efficent' (doesnt burn up as fast, uses less materials than 'smaller' pellets) the fuel is.

However making the differnt types burn at different rates and one at a time may be to much to figure out.

Manufacuturing speed needs to be comparable to ammo, where pe research is still have an effect.

There needs to be some waste factor but the ME research to it to obtain the most efficent size would be reasonably and possibly more efficent than the original scramble eggs of the fuels.

Other than that you could make pellets for cynos and the sort as well to cut down on item loads on the server.

Posted - 2008.04.22 19:07:00 - [120]

 

I am not sure why people keep saying "manufacturing" slots are a limitation right now, they are always available in plentiful supply. It is ME research slots, to some extent PE research slots, copy slots and Invention slots - there is never any shortage of manufacturing slots anywhere.
That said, I think that fuel pellets or what ever they are called would be good for manufacturers - especially if ME doesn't play a huge role in their production, it would give newbie manufacturers something they could produce and sell. You won't need a ton of refining abilities nor mining skill, nor run missions for salvage nor moon mine so would be an ideal first product.