| Author |
Topic |
Cesar Malari
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:04:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Cesar Malari on 30/04/2008 03:08:26Edited by: Cesar Malari on 22/04/2008 18:14:55Edited by: Cesar Malari on 22/04/2008 17:59:40Edited by: Cesar Malari on 20/04/2008 17:26:47Note: this is a re-release of BACON. The new version is 1.0.0.2. This version has had the reporting features removed to comply with CCP's request. Gunfleet Logistics is proud to announce a product we've wanted to share with EVE for as long as we've been developing it: BACON. BACON is a software tool that works with CCP's log server to collect real time data about entries and exits in a system that you are in. It then compares that data to a standings file, and sounds different tones/sounds depending on the status of each entry. For instance, if a war target enters the system, you hear a muted pistol shot. If an unknown enters, BACON sounds a click. Friendly and known entries are low tones. You also hear different tones when people leave the system. The sounds are completely configurable by the user, and can be imported and exported. BACON's performance is, quite simply, real time. You can rely on BACON to let you know when someone enters the system you are in. If you happen to be in a different conversation window than Local, you still are alerted to system entries. If you happen to be quickly checking a forum, or momentarily distracted from EVE û BACON will save your ship. Previous versions of BACON (< 1.0.0.1) had the capability to log data to a remote server controled by Gunfleet. At CCP's request, this functionality has been removed from 1.0.0.2. BACON's method of interaction with the log server and logs are EULA and TOS compliant and approved by CCP. Please see this thread for further information. (Specifically, CCP Lingorm and CCP Grimmi's statements) In addition, we're releasing the code under the GPL license for immediate community use and review. Gunfleet Logistics believes that it is important that everything be as open, transparent, and safe as possible. For more information, please visit the installation pages at: http://bacon.gunfleet.org/To get full use out of BACON, you'll need to create a standings file. Here's instructions for doing that.Thanks, Gunfleet Logistics Cesar Malari, Mad Scientist. 1.0.0.2 is current. Due to a oversight, the source code for 1.0.0.2 was posted at 1725, not 0800 when the clickonce and binary versions were put live. Our mistake.Attention commenters: don't miss the GM post on this thread (post #623): http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=753528&page=21#623For your safety, here is the MD5 checksum of the current version of BACON, and the source for it: 5bf71fd8fd46f1b214a942972d3b1c85 BACON-1.0.0.2-src.zip 4d4aafe96f434053d3605698582ccc74 BACON-1.0.0.2.zip |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Dark Ascendancy
The Council. |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:04:00 - [ 2]
YESSS!!!! Need more BACON!!!!!!!!!!!  |
DroneBay Diva
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:04:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: DroneBay Diva on 20/04/2008 18:45:17I do believe I was trolling here before we were so rudely interrupted. Edit: I find a certain irony that the people who made this 'product' are the same people from this thread |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
HellFleet |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:05:00 - [ 4]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/04/2008 08:06:25
This tool has no practical application whatsoever other than to allow you to not pay attention to the game in which you are playing. |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:06:00 - [ 5]
Request: Mitnal please just nuke the links and let us have our fun.  |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:08:00 - [ 6]
Edited by: Tortun Nahme on 20/04/2008 08:08:56PWNED! Bacon: 1 Pigs in a Blanket: 0  edit: no fair, saur kraut is not a bad word |
Lord Lycos
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:09:00 - [ 7]
Edited by: Lord Lycos on 20/04/2008 08:09:12
What was removed?
NM: Re-read. |
techzer0
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:13:00 - [ 8]
So... d/l this if you fail at realizing everyone is a threat? Alt scouts are bad enough, but cloaked alt scouts alerting you from several systems out that Reds are on the move without even having to check the screen?  Tell me that nobody else has realized the potential for that... |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:14:00 - [ 9]
muahaha all the threads gloating that the original got nuked have been.... nuked  |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
HellFleet |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:14:00 - [ 10]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/04/2008 08:15:43Posting my opinion: Even though BACON (the new real-time intel-gathering 3rd party app from a Hydra Alliance corp) is not a violation of the EULA, it breaks the spirit of the game. There are reasons that safeties have been put in place to prevent this sort of thing. The fact these guys have found a workaround to a system set in place to prevent people from doing this sort of thing frustrates me. Not because I didn't do it, but because it is available to players. First let me say this: I have local open 23/7. Everyone has access to it and I choose to leave it open. That is personal choice. If I downloaded this program and (this is a stretch here) I was mining in a lowsec belt with eve minimized (lol), I could be alerted to gtfo without even paying attention. But the root of the issue still stands. It takes away from the fact that EVE is a game where you need to focus and be attentive to play. If we allow this sort of thing to come into regular play what will be next? Some sort of combat tool to calculate the enemies' dps and say "you are going to explode in X number of seconds at this rate" or some other hogwash? CCP this needs to be stopped right now before more plans move further to develop more around this client/user loophole. Even though the data is accessed locally and does not involve the client, it reports realtime information that the client is delivering to you anyway. That's where the spirit of the game is broken and needs to be fixed. Finally, they have really touted themselves as being the saviors of not-paying-attention gameplay:  Originally by: Cesar Malari
BACON's performance is, quite simply, real time. You can rely on BACON to let you know when someone enters the system you are in. If you happen to be in a different conversation window than Local, you still are alerted to system entries. If you happen to be quickly checking a forum, or momentarily distracted from EVE – BACON will save your ship.
AKA "I don't have to actually be paying attention to EVE, my ship will be safe!" CCP, you yourselves have said hundreds of times that you want EVE to be an "at-keyboard experience." By allowing this sort of software (not this software per se, but this SORT of software) you are reneging your statements to your clients and consumers who put faith in you to keep this stuff out of the game. Come on CCP. Keep yourselves in check. Thanks. |
Le Mare |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:16:00 - [ 11]
One word - ghey. |
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:16:00 - [ 12]
I'd say we need a proper CCP investigation of this, to see weather or not this runs on the macro list. Automated software for notifying a pilot of in-game events... automated software for clicking a button every minute...
tbh I'm not that happy with the "feature" this software adds. But have yet to see a proper CCP statement after doing a more deep check. |
Talarn Kalarn |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:17:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/04/2008 08:15:43
Posting my opinion:
Even though BACON (the new real-time intel-gathering 3rd party app from a Hydra Alliance corp) is not a violation of the EULA, it breaks the spirit of the game.
There are reasons that safeties have been put in place to prevent this sort of thing. The fact these guys have found a workaround to a system set in place to prevent people from doing this sort of thing frustrates me. Not because I didn't do it, but because it is available to players.
First let me say this: I have local open 23/7. Everyone has access to it and I choose to leave it open. That is personal choice. If I downloaded this program and (this is a stretch here) I was mining in a lowsec belt with eve minimized (lol), I could be alerted to gtfo without even paying attention.
But the root of the issue still stands. It takes away from the fact that EVE is a game where you need to focus and be attentive to play. If we allow this sort of thing to come into regular play what will be next? Some sort of combat tool to calculate the enemies' dps and say "you are going to explode in X number of seconds at this rate" or some other hogwash?
CCP this needs to be stopped right now before more plans move further to develop more around this client/user loophole. Even though the data is accessed locally and does not involve the client, it reports realtime information that the client is delivering to you anyway. That's where the spirit of the game is broken and needs to be fixed.
Finally, they have really touted themselves as being the saviors of not-paying-attention gameplay:
Originally by: Cesar Malari
BACON's performance is, quite simply, real time. You can rely on BACON to let you know when someone enters the system you are in. If you happen to be in a different conversation window than Local, you still are alerted to system entries. If you happen to be quickly checking a forum, or momentarily distracted from EVE – BACON will save your ship.
AKA "I don't have to actually be paying attention to EVE, my ship will be safe!"
CCP, you yourselves have said hundreds of times that you want EVE to be an "at-keyboard experience." By allowing this sort of software (not this software per se, but this SORT of software) you are reneging your statements to your clients and consumers who put faith in you to keep this stuff out of the game.
Come on CCP. Keep yourselves in check.
Thanks.
I wonder if the irony of using a copy and paste function for your post has hit yet. |
Shar Tegral |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:18:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: techzer0
Alt scouts are bad enough, but cloaked alt scouts alerting you from several systems out that Reds are on the move without even having to check the screen?
The specific functionality that allowed for remote or group reporting from systems away was removed. I think it is a good choice to have done so. As to what is left, again there is going to be very vocal opponents and very quiet supporters. (No one screams and shout about something the speak good of... ) Imho, if it doesn't break the rules... who gives a f---. There is so much else to actually worry about. (I'll just let CCP mull this over without the drama bomb.) |
Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:20:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
it breaks the spirit of the game.
Exactly my thought. |
techzer0
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:22:00 - [ 16]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: techzer0
Alt scouts are bad enough, but cloaked alt scouts alerting you from several systems out that Reds are on the move without even having to check the screen?
The specific functionality that allowed for remote or group reporting from systems away was removed. I think it is a good choice to have done so. As to what is left, again there is going to be very vocal opponents and very quiet supporters. (No one screams and shout about something the speak good of... ) Imho, if it doesn't break the rules... who gives a f---. There is so much else to actually worry about. (I'll just let CCP mull this over without the drama bomb.)
Ok... you missed my point. Open a client other than your main, log in noob alt with standings set. Cloak said noob alt a few systems out. You get the same results, and running multiple clients isn't hard to do, I run my PVP character and my hauler alt at the same time pretty much every time I'm online, I don't have dual screens, and I don't feel any need to be notified when someone new enters local because I'm actually paying enough attention to keep track of both accounts. |
DroneBay Diva
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:23:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: Talarn Kalarn
I wonder if the irony of using a copy and paste function for your post has hit yet.
Forums /= Eve |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:24:00 - [ 18]
It's groups of players like Gunfleet that represent everything that is wrong with Eve and the scumbag cheaters that comprise a large number of it's player base.
Tools such as BACON and Goonfleet's similar app, and all other third party metagaming tools designed to automate info gathering from the local channel are despicable.
Because Gunfleet are responsible for even more metagaming, they deserve to be grouped with Goonfleet, RA and every other loser bunch that does everything possible to take advantage of every loophole and cheat they can use to win at any cost.
Gunfleet, you have my utmost contempt. |
LordMordred
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:26:00 - [ 19]
Edited by: LordMordred on 20/04/2008 08:28:47The first thread was nuked it would seem. So here we go again. This is simply crap in a can. There is no way this should ever be made legal by CCP. This will effectly make roaming very hard to catch people off guard. Tactics are ruined enough by local as it is. On top of all that. THIS IS A MACRO. There is no ands, ifs, or buts about it. It may find a loop-hole in the EULA, it may not.... but it breaks the spirit of the game and this spirit of the EULA  Macro(in the sense we are talking about here): A program that does something automatically. It is third party software that gives an unfair advantage to people who want to play EVE with out paying attention to EVE. If the first thread was nuked as a result of my reporting the thread... then I hope this one gets the same threatment and an official and timely reply from CCP on this matter be made. |
SirMolly |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:27:00 - [ 20]
I love this tool. Now i don't need to stare at local all the time anymore and can do some useful things while farming, without being ganked. |
Reuser
Caldari
Gunfleet Logistics
Rogue Method Alliance |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:30:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Chribba
I'd say we need a proper CCP investigation of this, to see weather or not this runs on the macro list. Automated software for notifying a pilot of in-game events... automated software for clicking a button every minute...
tbh I'm not that happy with the "feature" this software adds. But have yet to see a proper CCP statement after doing a more deep check.
Honestly, we tried to emulate your trusted third party-ness with this tool. We've bent over backwards to be transparent, CCP compliant, and open with this tool. We've tried to give EVERYONE access to the same things at the same time, while balancing being able to release a usable product. Again, open source, GPL, and accountable to CCP. I wish I could do more for you, because quite honestly, I think you and we are on the right path. This is my PERSONAL opinion, not a statement of Gunfleet policy. I think you will find that most of us agree with this post, however. |
Talarn Kalarn |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:30:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
It's groups of players like Gunfleet that represent everything that is wrong with Eve and the scumbag cheaters that comprise a large number of it's player base.
Tools such as BACON and Goonfleet's similar app, and all other third party metagaming tools designed to automate info gathering from the local channel are despicable.
Because Gunfleet are responsible for even more metagaming, they deserve to be grouped with Goonfleet, RA and every other loser bunch that does everything possible to take advantage of every loophole and cheat they can use to win at any cost.
Gunfleet, you have my utmost contempt.
*holds up mirror |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
HellFleet |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:32:00 - [ 23]
I actually have another incredibly valid point here:
Okay check it. About 2 hours ago, one of my Mackinaw pilots was in lowsec mining in a belt. I was docked in station in the same system.
Some guy with 5.1 sec was in the system (he was neutral) and about 4 blues were in local with us.
The mackinaw pilot had a drake alt defending.
Anyway I say "hey there's a neutral in local, you need to be on high alert" and he said "nah 5.1 sec, I'm ok."
I swear to God, 20 seconds later he's being blown up by a pilgrim.
If he would have heard a sound I would bet you MONEY he would have docked. People are programmable in the fact that if you are conditioned by a sound you will respond a certain way. For example, hearing "Your security status has been lowered" creates a sense of euphoria, and "you are unable to warp because you are warp scrambled" creates a sense of anxiety.
Adding a beep will cause people to act before they think. That is not where I want this game to go. |
Disteeler
Segunda Fundacion
T o r m e n t u m |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:40:00 - [ 24]
This kind of lame crap 3rd party software break MMOs always. |
Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:45:00 - [ 25]
This is frickin' bull. I hope CCP does something about this because this is just plain pathetic. |
Koro Kar'Amarr
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:46:00 - [ 26]
Remove BACON Remove Local Constellation is local enough.  |
Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:48:00 - [ 27]
Originally by: Reuser
Honestly, we tried to emulate your trusted third party-ness with this tool.
No, no you ****ing didn't. chribba provides free, useful services that better the game. You're trying to throw it down the ****ter. So, how about, you **** off and stop trying to spew your filth all over mah game? |
Hans Roaming
Body Count Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:49:00 - [ 28]
CCP Please change logging as this is a farmers dream come true. Either remove logging from showing people entering or leaving systems or delay it by a set time period.
This program destroys the spirit of the game completly. I mean have a cloaked alt sitting in the entrance to a dead end system and you don't even need to look to be alerted to someone next door. |
DroneBay Diva
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:50:00 - [ 29]
Edited by: DroneBay Diva on 20/04/2008 08:52:19 Originally by: Reuser
Originally by: Chribba
I'd say we need a proper CCP investigation of this, to see weather or not this runs on the macro list. Automated software for notifying a pilot of in-game events... automated software for clicking a button every minute...
tbh I'm not that happy with the "feature" this software adds. But have yet to see a proper CCP statement after doing a more deep check.
Honestly, we tried to emulate your trusted third party-ness with this tool. We've bent over backwards to be transparent, CCP compliant, and open with this tool. We've tried to give EVERYONE access to the same things at the same time, while balancing being able to release a usable product.
Again, open source, GPL, and accountable to CCP. I wish I could do more for you, because quite honestly, I think you and we are on the right path.
This is my PERSONAL opinion, not a statement of Gunfleet policy. I think you will find that most of us agree with this post, however.
It's not your openness/willingness to share that is being brought into question here. As a matter of fact, I admire the HOW of what you've done here. Getting CCP's approval (for now), allowing the code to be seen by the public, etc. You have done a good job in that regard. It's what the product DOES that is being called into question. It is practically automating a part of the game that SHOULD NOT be automated. If people want to do things risk free they should have to pay attention and work for it. They should not have a 3rd party program that goes '*beep* time to ctrl q now' At any rate, I should've been in bed about 2 hours ago, We'll see what has come of this in the morning. Edit: On one final note, not having Chribba's approval is hopefully gonna pull some weight somewhere that matters. |
Koro Kar'Amarr
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 08:53:00 - [ 30]
Oh, also, EFT is ebil aswell..
All I hear lately is dps this dps that... The min/maxers are here, and they smell faintly of body odour and I can hear the niggling scratchings of their chalked equasions on the blackboard.. how attractive.
Where is the fun people!¬?!?!?!??!?? |
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BACON: Never be surprised again (relaunch)