| Author |
Topic |
Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction |
Posted - 2008.05.20 13:47:00 - [ 211]
 Originally by: Achi Taga
You think lowsec isn't dangerous?
Have you spent any time there lately?
Ask the last couple of buggers I blew up for refusing to pay a ransom if it's dangerous there. Moreso than 0.0 in many cases.
Sorry missed out part of my post. I meant to say more dangerous than high sec, and should be a great place for pirates. |
Belch Verbyl
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 13:47:00 - [ 212]
Originally by: Achi Taga
You think lowsec isn't dangerous?
Have you spent any time there lately?
Ask the last couple of buggers I blew up for refusing to pay a ransom if it's dangerous there. Moreso than 0.0 in many cases.
And that's exactly why I like the Factional Warfare theme tbh  |
Insanus Marcus |
Posted - 2008.05.20 14:11:00 - [ 213]
Edited by: Insanus Marcus on 20/05/2008 14:12:30
...oops wrong thread
|
Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 14:16:00 - [ 214]
Originally by: Belch Verbyl
Originally by: Achi Taga
You think lowsec isn't dangerous?
Have you spent any time there lately?
Ask the last couple of buggers I blew up for refusing to pay a ransom if it's dangerous there. Moreso than 0.0 in many cases.
And that's exactly why I like the Factional Warfare theme tbh
|
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia |
Posted - 2008.05.20 14:28:00 - [ 215]
Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 20/05/2008 10:36:40
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
For the established 0.0 alliances to complain, well you are already in the "end game" part, why should you participate in the earlier stages ? From what I see in the Dev Blog, playe progression is imagined to be empire hugger/newb -> FW/lowsec participant -> 0.0 Alliance warfare.
Frankly, I think this thinking sucks.
For me, why EVE is superior is that there IS NO endgame. Yes, we have people going from low sec fights to 0.0. We also have people coming from 0.0 to low sec or even highsec carebear industry market whatever, when they get bored and want to try somehting new, or get their arses kicked. It is not a progression as much as it is different aspects of the game that you get to choose from.
Now it is sad that some people never get around to trying more than one aspect of the game -- that some people are stuck in carebearing because they do not know how to do something else, and equally that some people are too clueless to understand the finer points of politics and market and are stuck in pewpew.
Trying to make it a "progress" and thinking of one aspect of the game as "endgame" -- note that end implies also that there is nothing more to do after it -- is not, in my opinion, adding anything to EVE as a game. Quite the opposite.
EVE is superior because it is a sandbox. There should be no endgame.
EDITED to add: and yes, EM does not hold sovereignty, nor do we intend to, not before the storyline gets rid of Amarr Empire anyway. :P
ADDED ALSO: take it from someone specializing in low sec fights: whether alliances are allowed in or not, the FW sites and systems will be blobbed.
Read and try to understand before responding. 1. I did put end game in quotes for a reason. I do not believe such a thing should exist in any MMORPG, but there are finite resources available so something is alway regarded as end game. 2. I said it is pity the RP alliances are screwed along the 0.0 ones. But any xception from a rule will spawn more problems than the original rule without exceptions. 3. Greyscale specificaly stated that he does not believe the obstacles placed will not prevent any alliance blobing in FW. So that point is acounted for. EVE is all about options you have. Some options are free for all (like you can die almost anytime), some are restricted (corporation membership, 0.0 docking rights). You have to deal with it and take the options you can or like and work to past restrictions. FW is a new thing that is introduced to cover a specific part of the game. It is entirely optional and has some restrictions. Deal with it. It's the same as Titans, Sov warfare etc. Just another incarnation of the same. |
Erim Solfara
Amarr
House of Solfara |
Posted - 2008.05.20 14:43:00 - [ 216]
I seem to be going against the general opinion when I say that I think it's a good idea to exclude alliances, all the reasons put forward in the blog seem valid to me, and frankly, I'd love to have an arena that I could join in with my character/corp and try my hand at pvp, I think this may well open up the game to players like me that have been disenchanted with pvp ever since they consistently got owned by every ship that caught them in lowsec and haven't ever wanted to try since.
This gives me a reason to fight, and potentially, a better community to fight against.
If alliances were involved, I'd feel exactly the same about factional warfare as I do about 0.0 space, there's no point going there and trying to accomplish anything because you're going to get stomped on in large numbers by 'better' players than you. |
Ugor Batarr
Minmatar
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2008.05.20 14:57:00 - [ 217]
Sorry to say so but I see this whole FW-expansion as a horrible fail. You're excluding the vast majority of the player-base from a whole expansion. Every player in a player-driven corporation is excluded from FW unless he wants to strip himself of his social bounds inside the game. Same goes for player corps not in alliances - do you realy think there are many corps who will foin FW as a whole? As soon as such a corp has more than 1 member it will be practically impossible to decide which faction to join - I'm no RPer but playing a Minmatar char I'd NEVER EVER join Caldari or Amarr (not that I had the choice anyway  given I'm a member of a 0.0 corp/alliance). So who is this expansion for? The few people in NPC-corps who may be interested in looking into Lo-Sec/FW-PVP. If there are any left at all - 'cause all those people interested in Pew-Pew are most likely already in a 0.0-corp. Making expansions for maybe 5 - 10% (if at all) of the player base isn't a very intelligent decision IMO. I fear FW will fail as horribly as LV5-missions. I fear a lot the people who're left out from FW by current mechanics will flood low-sec and shoot the hell out of the few(?) militia-pilots. Maybe I see things too dark but as you got mostly criticism from all sides regarding the upcoming expansion so far I doubt it. We'll see how it turns out. |
Ephemeral Waves
Federation of Freedom Fighters |
Posted - 2008.05.20 15:03:00 - [ 218]
Edited by: Ephemeral Waves on 20/05/2008 15:03:29 Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
Faction piltos should get free ships with free locked fittings, unrefinable. This would encourage pvp a lot. But wont happen. Becosue you will need to grind 1 week for ship, and then fw die.
I think that this is the most disturbing type of comment I've seen in these discussions. Nothing in EVE is free. Why do this nubs think that they should be able to pvp for free? |
Vladimir Griftin
Minmatar |
Posted - 2008.05.20 15:21:00 - [ 219]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl
Faction piltos should get free ships with free locked fittings, unrefinable. This would encourage pvp a lot. But wont happen. Becosue you will need to grind 1 week for ship, and then fw die.
Aaaahahah, thats the dumbest thing I ever heard, I mean seriously why do you people play this game? The day you remove any penalty for dying is the day it truly becomes WoW in space. |
Assistant Kym |
Posted - 2008.05.20 15:36:00 - [ 220]
For the many, many, many posts of those who are lamenting the fact that alliances are not permitted into FW, I am one that supports it.
What makes me laugh is this from the first page:
"your most loyal player base with absolutely nothing benefical for them"
What a load of self-indulgent megalomania. I'm not in an alliance, and I feel I'm part of the loyal player base, but at no moment do I beleive I'm the most loyal nor do I believe I'm entitled to every damn thing the devs release. I have yet to be able to create a PoS, do I ***** and moan that CCP released something I can't be apart of...unless I guess what, join an alliance!
So quit all of your *****ing and if you want to be a part of FW, deal with the requirements. Because I have to in order to enjoy 0.0 space. |
Granmethedon III
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2008.05.20 15:45:00 - [ 221]
Originally by: Assistant Kym
For the many, many, many posts of those who are lamenting the fact that alliances are not permitted into FW, I am one that supports it.
What makes me laugh is this from the first page:
"your most loyal player base with absolutely nothing benefical for them"
What a load of self-indulgent megalomania. I'm not in an alliance, and I feel I'm part of the loyal player base, but at no moment do I beleive I'm the most loyal nor do I believe I'm entitled to every damn thing the devs release. I have yet to be able to create a PoS, do I ***** and moan that CCP released something I can't be apart of...unless I guess what, join an alliance!
So quit all of your *****ing and if you want to be a part of FW, deal with the requirements. Because I have to in order to enjoy 0.0 space.
You can have a pos without being in an alliance. |
Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 15:51:00 - [ 222]
Originally by: Ugor Batarr
Sorry to say so but I see this whole FW-expansion as a horrible fail.
You're excluding the vast majority of the player-base from a whole expansion.
Every player in a player-driven corporation is excluded from FW unless he wants to strip himself of his social bounds inside the game. Same goes for player corps not in alliances - do you realy think there are many corps who will foin FW as a whole? As soon as such a corp has more than 1 member it will be practically impossible to decide which faction to join - I'm no RPer but playing a Minmatar char I'd NEVER EVER join Caldari or Amarr (not that I had the choice anyway given I'm a member of a 0.0 corp/alliance).
So who is this expansion for?
The few people in NPC-corps who may be interested in looking into Lo-Sec/FW-PVP. If there are any left at all - 'cause all those people interested in Pew-Pew are most likely already in a 0.0-corp.
Making expansions for maybe 5 - 10% (if at all) of the player base isn't a very intelligent decision IMO. I fear FW will fail as horribly as LV5-missions.
I fear a lot the people who're left out from FW by current mechanics will flood low-sec and shoot the hell out of the few(?) militia-pilots.
Maybe I see things too dark but as you got mostly criticism from all sides regarding the upcoming expansion so far I doubt it. We'll see how it turns out.
All I can say is that if there is a significant amount of stuff other than FW in this expansion that will apply to those deliberately excluded from it, CCP needs to start coming forth with that info PRONTO. That's about all they can do to mitigate this situation if they aren't going to listen to the objections to the FW system. The fact that they haven't suggests to me that everything in this expansion is basically aimed at a pvp system that is destined for fail. |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia |
Posted - 2008.05.20 16:01:00 - [ 223]
seems everybody is waiting for the rewards part blog :-)
till then arguing about restrictions will be pointless. ranks ? who needs them ? killboards already have them and it is killing some aspects of the game. CCP better comes up with something lasting and worthwile. |
Haverloth
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Vigilia Valeria |
Posted - 2008.05.20 16:20:00 - [ 224]
Edited by: Haverloth on 20/05/2008 16:20:35 Originally by: Assistant Kym
For the many, many, many posts of those who are lamenting the fact that alliances are not permitted into FW, I am one that supports it.
What makes me laugh is this from the first page:
"your most loyal player base with absolutely nothing benefical for them"
"Your most loyal player base" being the RP alliances. PIE has been around since the very start of the game - I think it is the third oldest corp in game. If that's not loyal, I don't know what is. Ushra Khan have some elements dating back to the very beginning, as do CVA, and Vigilia Valeria. We are a loyal playerbase, we've not suddenly come onto the scene. As CCP ignored us Empire-dwellers for 5 years practically with every expansion focusing on 0.0, we have remained there and we have remained loyal. Quote:
What a load of self-indulgent megalomania. I'm not in an alliance, and I feel I'm part of the loyal player base, but at no moment do I beleive I'm the most loyal nor do I believe I'm entitled to every damn thing the devs release. I have yet to be able to create a PoS, do I ***** and moan that CCP released something I can't be apart of...unless I guess what, join an alliance!
We do not believe we are entitled to every release. However, we do believe we are entitled to this one - as CCP have repeatedly told us that FW will be the "RP" release. Now we find out we're being excluded (and exclusion is what it is) and it is more like PVP-lite for new players. Also, you can put up a POS as a corp. Quote:
So quit all of your *****ing and if you want to be a part of FW, deal with the requirements. Because I have to in order to enjoy 0.0 space.
We don't enjoy 0.0 space. We are in Empire space, and have been for a very long time. We fight in Empire space. We have been doing the "Small Gang Warfare" that CCP ignored for so long and now enthusiastically champions. We are the original faction warfare. And now we're being punished for it. |
CCP Greyscale
 |
Posted - 2008.05.20 16:23:00 - [ 225]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
An excellent post
This is an excellent post and exactly the kind of thing we're looking for. Thanks also to Jade, Elsabeth and others for arguing in favour of being productive here  Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
One easy way to make it at least somewhat easier for RP alliances would be to make sure to write the backstory so that it will leave us the choice IC, without either choice compromising our RP shows of loyalty. This should be easy to do and does not require coding, "only" writing, to make sure that when the call goes out, it includes the option for established loyal alliances to continue their work without signing up.
It needs to be taken care that it is really an OPTION, not an ORDER, though, or a different set of people (those who would rather leave their alliances and sign up -- a minority, but they do exist) will be screwed.
Oh man, if I came across like that I really am sorry. Yes, absolutely, the Empires will not be "ordering" all loyalist forces to sign up, and there's no RP conflict between staying loyal to your faction and not explicitly enlisting. The point about trust was that the Empires aren't ready yet to allow Alliances to exist within their (semi-)formal military structures as the conflict of interests is too big a risk for them to ignore right now. Originally by: Arkady Sadik
[things Alliances can do]
I knew I was going to miss stuff  Thanks for the comprehensive list though Originally by: Alz Shado
This is what happens when you try to shoehorn new features into existing game mechanics.
Factional Warfare should be it's own entity, not a replacement for Alliances/Corporations. The issues with standings and such are a prime example of why the two code bases should be separated.
I checked on dictionary.com and apparently "bespoke" in the context I used is a British thing, which may explain the confusion. To reiterate in completely clear international English: the Militia system does not use Alliance code, it's a completely new system. The technical hurdles, as I explained in the blog, are low - probably ten minutes' code to remove the "no alliances" limitation and a week or two to check that doing so doesn't break anything as a result of the assumption that there would be no Alliances involved. This is a design decision not a technical one. Originally by: Becq Starforged
Constructive suggestion:
As above, we're not reusing mechanics. But yes, this is an interesting option. Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
- what exactly can we do for to support (can we dec the Amarr Militia? can we enter the 'war zone complexes'?)
Absolutely. You only need one dude in the dungeon to actually be in the Militia to register your presence; neutrals are simply not counted by the success criteria. The hurdle here is that under the current system you're going to take a lot of sec hits as a consequence; if this doesn't bother you then there's no mechanical need for your gang to be enlisted at all. This isn't Battlegrounds! Originally by: Sapphrine
Ushra'Khan are discussing this on a council level and debating. Yes, i was and still am a little miffed at how this is falling out but I'm now realising that I can see CCP's point. I feel information flow has been poor and a full information rollout quickly would have avoided alot of pointless speculation but I think thats my largest gripe.
I fully understand that you might be more than a little miffed, but at the same time it's very refreshing to hear this sort of viewpoint. And yes, I agree, information flow could've been better, and for that I can only apologize and say that it's something that hopefully WILL be better in future. |
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 16:26:00 - [ 226]
Specific points aside, a general note: we're anticipating (although not necessarily expecting) FW to be extremely busy initially as everyone and their dog piles in to see how it works. This is fine. However, we're also planning on having this still be around in some form five years down the line, and we're planning on tweaking the rules along the way. Once things stabilize and we can see how the system as a whole works under a sustainable amount of load, we can and likely will start tuning and broadening it. Also, we're live on SiSi right now, so go play |
Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 16:35:00 - [ 227]
Edited by: Jakke Logan on 20/05/2008 16:40:58
What are you guys going to do if a week after this thing goes live and the non alliance non experienced PVP'ers you are luring into a pirate bonanza there is NO load to speak of on your servers from FW because... No one is playing it? You can't add a new facet of pvp to the game and exclude... your pvp'ers. The whole concept of FW as implemented is as fundamentally flawed as adding, say, an industrial system aimed at getting pvp'ers into industry but deliberately blocks those already doing industry from participating unless they delete all their BPO's
That is my prediction and I will stand by it. It's obvious that this is what's going to be the end result to anyone who dares to think it through.
To succeed this thing is going to depend on people excluded from it to "be on their best behavior". Not going to happen, and indeed, I ENCOURAGE misbehavior if for no other reason than to force CCP to either take this out or make it right. The sites will be blobbed to death till there are no more faction warriors left to kill.
|
4rc4ng3L
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 17:01:00 - [ 228]
Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 20/05/2008 18:24:28
I'm stupidly confusing as to why alliance people are complaining about FW.
From my point of view, your in 0.0 to escape the mess that is high sec and go make your own adventure with your alliance. The time and effort required by alliances to get stations, caps up and running and then to hold their own territory is huge.
So with that in mind, how could you expect to keep your alliance running AND have all your guys involved in the FW aspect.
Its an either, or, situation....
If you want to be in an alliance, that should entail being part of it, being with your alliance mates, and helping the alliance by contributing in some way. If this is not how an alliance operates then its a glorified chatroom for friends.
So the alliances than run in the 'glorified chatroom' situation, turning into a corp and signing up for FW with all your guys anyway is no real change.
To the major alliances that are operating full strenght and holding territory, its in no way benificial if your alliance members are off taking part in FW, it will lead to an unproductive alliance.
The point im trying to make is simply, WHY would major alliances want to sign up for faction warfare if it is counter productive to your alliance as a whole.
If you want to be part of FW, then THATS exactly where your alliegance should be. You cant expect to be equally involved with both and you cant expect CCP to change what so far is a very well thought out FW blueprint in order to suit your 'meh, maybe i wana go mess about in FW for a short while' attitude.
|
Aldyn
Caldari
Microhard Corporation |
Posted - 2008.05.20 17:04:00 - [ 229]
One thing I lament is that this isn't going to be in both high and low sec. Given the FW can't exist in 0.0 but I don't understand why it isn't within high sec as well.
And on the note of Alliance involvement, the FW system should have been implemented in tiers that address the contributions from each "section" of the Eve community: Individuals, Corporations and Alliances, with different types of participation in each tier. Perhaps that's their end goal.
Individuals could run missions/gather resources and the like, the Corps could do what the individuals do but also claim low sec space (the occupancy dealio), and Alliances could claim 0.0 space in the name of the faction they were siding with and there could be new structures and content added for alliance sized objectives.
I do agree though that having 200 alliance individuals tromping through low sec would somewhat imbalance the nature of what appears to be the current implementation. |
Jakke Logan
Caldari
F Off And Die
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 17:17:00 - [ 230]
Originally by: Aldyn
One thing I lament is that this isn't going to be in both high and low sec. Given the FW can't exist in 0.0 but I don't understand why it isn't within high sec as well.
And on the note of Alliance involvement, the FW system should have been implemented in tiers that address the contributions from each "section" of the Eve community: Individuals, Corporations and Alliances, with different types of participation in each tier. Perhaps that's their end goal.
Individuals could run missions/gather resources and the like, the Corps could do what the individuals do but also claim low sec space (the occupancy dealio), and Alliances could claim 0.0 space in the name of the faction they were siding with and there could be new structures and content added for alliance sized objectives.
I do agree though that having 200 alliance individuals tromping through low sec would somewhat imbalance the nature of what appears to be the current implementation.
Ah, but this is what you are going to HAVE happening whether it's good or bad. Which is why alliances should have been included. As currently done, there is no incentive at all (since they can't participate or earn the rewards) for alliances to NOT act as a disruptive force. To them, the new people in lowsec are killboard stats to be. |
Keldjos Falzir
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2008.05.20 17:18:00 - [ 231]
Alrighty, a few things.
First, anyone who is of the opinion that exculding Alliances from Factional Warfare will magically mean that it will be alliance-free, small gang work has obviously not thought it through very well. Most of the action will be in Low Sec space. All the pirates in New Eden will be camping the complex systems. And the Alliances will make small corps with high faction standings and alts, and use those people to bring huge f*ck-off fleets into the complexes to gank people whilst camping the entrances with Capital ships.
They will do this because, right now, most 0.0 PvP is boring as hell. We do POS shooting and territorial stuff in the vague hope that inbetween we'll get good fights. FW will provide target rich environments, with no POSes around. Doesn't take a lot of effort to realize that 0.0 players are going to jump at the oppertunity this presents.
Second, while I am not a roleplayer per-se, I do follow the RP corps and I like the fiction and background of New Eden. The idea that the Empires would refuse to allow large power blocs with immense resources to help them is a little silly. They might not trust them, but they'll certainly not want them joining their enemies. The biggest alliances have as much or more firepower than the Empires.
For perspective, at it's height, I believe Goonswarm controlled the bulk of 8 regions (Scalding Pass, Omist, Teniferis, Detorid, Feyth, Esoteria and Paragon Soul). BoB at it's height controlled at least that many. The Amarr Empire has soverignty over, what, 7 regions? GS, BoB, RA or any of the other major powers have capital and supercapital fleets numbering in the hundreds, as well as the ability to continually produce them. Essentially, the Empires might not want to trust these Alliances, but they would have to be brain damaged to snub them and risk them coming in on the other side.
Solutions: After reading this thread, I see two that would be effective.
1) Allow Alliances to declare war on Militias, providing they have positive standings to the opposite Militia. IE: Goonswarm hates those damned liberal Gallente, so we wardec their militia. To do so, we need at least 1.0 average standing to the Caldari State. Trust me, that'll be a big enough barrier to entry, if standings are averaged over the entire alliance, or even just the average of member corp's standings. This will allow RP alliances to work for their Empires, but make sure that people who want in for the rewards of FW must actually join militias. It will also allow a way for non-RP alliances to have some fun, and probably reduce the camping of every FW complex from now until the end of time.
2) Divorce FW from corp/alliance membership entirely, allowing anyone to join their militia. It would be an additional group membership, which you could flick on or off. You could add a stipulation that just toggling on militia status without joining fully requires higher personal standings, like 5.0 or 7.0, to prove that you are loyal to the Empire in question.
If FW goes live as it is, it will be hillariously short lived, and will STILL be dominated by 0.0 alliances and lowsec pirates.
|
Gridwalker
Amarr
Divine Power.
KIA Alliance |
Posted - 2008.05.20 17:40:00 - [ 232]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Specific points aside, a general note: we're anticipating (although not necessarily expecting) FW to be extremely busy initially as everyone and their dog piles in to see how it works.
Who do you anticipate will flood in? The people who are already doing PvP will be forced to leave their alliances. PvP corps who are in alliances aren't going to leave their alliances for this just to try it out, and PvP corps who aren't in alliances (such as pirate corps) probably don't have the standings to participate properly anyway. The carebear empire corps aren't going to sign their corps up, since that will open their miners, mission runners, and POS's up for attack. I doubt many people are going to leave their corporations just to try this out. -Grid |
Sykosys
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2008.05.20 17:46:00 - [ 233]
Well I have tried to think about this rationally
I cant even join an alt corp.
Im the freakin CEO of our corp. And I have alot to do logistically with this corp.
I cant join FW and enjoy what it has to offer and thats the way the mechanics have made it. |
Dazzstorm
Minmatar
Blake Industries
The Drift. |
Posted - 2008.05.20 17:46:00 - [ 234]
Even tho this is what CCP wanted in the first place with a Faction based game play, im up for the idea which will bring in some interesting concepts to game, and who's not to say that in a few years time; Alliances might be able to force there influence into empire and stir up the balance of the faction based mechanics. my 2 cents   P.S. sort out a training school for alts isk for time spent training them off line. this might encourage more peeps to start a new. D A Z Z S T O R M |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow
Atlas Alliance |
Posted - 2008.05.20 18:00:00 - [ 235]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
there are still mechanical issues with integrating alliances. For example, we can't use Alliances themselves as they don't have standings from factions and therefore can't be subject to standings checks.
It's still the case that broken mechanics are influencing your decisions, which still have nothing to do with the point that I'm trying to make. Individuals who want to participate in FW shouldn't be disallowed because of membership in an alliance. The logistical reasons are counter-productive to your own goals -- do you realize how it sounds when you say you're intentionally pitching a feature as "a social, logistical and organizational inconvenience?" Ps. Teamspeak trumps this inconvenience quite soundly. Will players be able to organize their own fleets within militias? Then there's no inconvenience at all except the need to pay for an alt account. Or is that the idea? Originally by: Keldjos Falzir
2) Divorce FW from corp/alliance membership entirely, allowing anyone to join their militia. It would be an additional group membership, which you could flick on or off. You could add a stipulation that just toggling on militia status without joining fully requires higher personal standings, like 5.0 or 7.0, to prove that you are loyal to the Empire in question.
Leave it to a goon to make the most sense in the thread. That's it, that's the fix. Leave alliance mechanics out of FW. Welcome individuals who want to participate. If it's as easy as Greyscale makes it sound, then there's really no reason not to do it. |
Darahk J'olonar
Gallente
Trans Eve Organization |
Posted - 2008.05.20 18:06:00 - [ 236]
I think the exclusion of Alliances, corps in alliances and players in alliances is a great idea. Simply because it now offers an alternate end game for players rather than just 0.0 space holding alliances. You get the benefits of targets universe wide, blues/reds/neuts, small gang warfare and possible some capital engagements. Holding and taking space, not like 0.0, but a similar mechanic/idea. Plus as an individual or a faction aligned corp you can still war dec for the extra pew pew, etc... It's just an other avenue for people to explore. |
4rc4ng3L
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 18:19:00 - [ 237]
Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 20/05/2008 18:23:31 Originally by: Darahk J'olonar
I think the exclusion of Alliances, corps in alliances and players in alliances is a great idea. Simply because it now offers an alternate end game for players rather than just 0.0 space holding alliances. You get the benefits of targets universe wide, blues/reds/neuts, small gang warfare and possible some capital engagements. Holding and taking space, not like 0.0, but a similar mechanic/idea. Plus as an individual or a faction aligned corp you can still war dec for the extra pew pew, etc... It's just an other avenue for people to explore.
Exactly, it should be an alternative, you shoulnt expect to do both. For the first time ccp is making you choose, I think its fantastic... FW needs to be an A or B situation, either you opt into it and go forward with the RP element, or you stay out and continue as normal. Its the only way that FW can remain fully RP and any other alternative will simply water it down to boring dull same old missions. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari |
Posted - 2008.05.20 18:20:00 - [ 238]
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 20/05/2008 18:41:28 Originally by: CCP Greyscale
lots of good stuff
Thanks Greyscale for those answers, and <3, hugs and kisses. I love you guys (again). And oh yea we can deal with sec hits. We are antipirate...  Whoever asked for it, please see for example here for a dev reference about the FW being mostly in low sec. Originally by: Keldjos Falzir
First, anyone who is of the opinion that exculding Alliances from Factional Warfare will magically mean that it will be alliance-free, small gang work has obviously not thought it through very well.
QFT. But if this is not a problem for CCP, it is not a problem for me. |
Arlenna Molatov
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 18:36:00 - [ 239]
Edited by: Arlenna Molatov on 20/05/2008 18:38:27 Originally by: Sykosys
Well I have tried to think about this rationally
I cant even join an alt corp.
Im the freakin CEO of our corp. And I have alot to do logistically with this corp.
I cant join FW and enjoy what it has to offer and thats the way the mechanics have made it.
Of course you can. You have a choice in this game. Thats what makes this game better than most of the MMO's out there. YOU actually have a choice at every turn of the game. But YOU have to make the choice on which path you are going to take. Are you going to pull out of your allice(as a corp) to join FW or you going to leave your corp to join FW or you going to leave your corp to remain with your alliance. There are 3 choices right off the bat. So don't sit there and say you don't have any choice simply because you DON'T LIKE what choices are in front of you!!!! This goes back to my previous post. You allainces think you are ENTITLED to this or something in this game. Well, to quote so many others in this game going all the way back to when this game went gold --YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANYTHING IN EVE!-- If you want it, then you will have to do what you need to do to get it. Perhaps that has been lost amongst some of you over the last 5 years. Just becasue you are an RP allaince doesnt mean you get $hit in any expansion wether you like it or not. You want it, then get off your a$$ and make it work.....you aren't going to be handed anything in this game. |
Boon McBwen
Caldari
Blackwater Syndicate
Raining Doom |
Posted - 2008.05.20 18:42:00 - [ 240]
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
Edited by: Arlenna Molatov on 20/05/2008 00:54:00
I seriously can't believe some of the whining i'm seeing here.
The points CCP made are pretty damn valid if you look at it from the BIG PICTURE, not solely based on a few corps or people.
If you want to address RP corps, fine, lets address it. It comes down to one simple thing. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Meaning, WON'T be aforded the luxury of holding 0.0 space AND being able to fight for the Empire factions.
Its pretty damn simple and they have made the obvious point of...dare I say...LOYALTY. You aren't going to have loyalty from any entity that also claims loyalty to another group/faction. And yes, all 0.0 alliance are factions. They are their own factions.
From the RP stance, this is PERFECT sense, when you take all of your personal feelings out of the equation. Loyalty(1) + Loyalty(2) doesn't not equal trust. Its about as simple as you can make it, no emotions involved.
Of course, there will be all those people that will say otherwise but then they prove my point. They are unwilling to give up their loyalty to their own faction(alliance) to swear loyalty to the Empires. Thats all part of the play, I'm afraid.
If what most of you people are saying is true, then the RP'ers have been rp'ing/playing for the Empires from the start. If that is the case, then giving up your alliance name should not be that hard as you are now giving the chance to fight directly for your Empire. Again....you can't have your cake and eat it too. Sorry, but thats how it goes sometimes.
A-frikkin-men |
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