| Author |
Topic |
 Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.29 10:39:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 30/08/2008 14:28:12 Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 29/07/2008 10:41:04 A long time back, Oveur asked about environmental effects that could be in EVE. The idea seemed to rather die a death or get put on the back-burner, as it's no longer stickied or in the Common Ideas area. I'm sure it's been suggested before but I can't find obvious ones.
Having played around in Factional Warfare for a while, I found myself noticing that the complexes one can capture in FW add an interesting tactical addition to the PvP game. The way these are implemented are restricted deadspace gates that only permit certain ship types in.
This can have some interesting tactical results. A superior force can find itself unable to engage an enemy if they are missing ships of the requisite types. Alternatively, an FC is presented with the tactical decision of whether to split their forces. If anything, this is an interesting counter to blobbing, in that invariably only some ships can enter the complexes.
The notion I propose is to take this further. Instead of having complexes, one could have environmental effects that cover an area, restricting ship types due to scale (lots of potential RP ways of doing this, plasma storms, ion tornadoes, gravitational eddies and space-time washes, all of which restrict the ship size in some way).
How could this be applied? Lots of possibilities that could add to the game. At the grand scale, you could add/change entire systems that are restricted, providing routes that only smaller ships can traverse or jump into. On the smaller scale, you could have portions of the solar system affected by these effects. Anchoring some module within them (to pick a contentious one, lets say a cyno-jammer) means that your offence and defence is restricted to smaller ships. This might be advantageous for given groups. You could have some belts inside an effect, meaning that resources and their access is restricted. You could even have it occur randomly in systems for a period, and provided it appeared obviously on the map with adequate warning ('ion storm is approaching the system, it will arrive in 3 hours'), could provide strategic uses.
I could see small-ship strike forces attacking under the cover of a storm, for example...
To extend it fully might require some changes to what can be anchored where, as after all, the primary tactical reason to go to any system is to attack or defend something in it, and I doubt anyone fancies the idea of taking on a deathstar POS in cruisers. You could move soft-target infrastructure inside an effect and not allow POSes inside, for example.
I think there is a lot of potential, especially if CCP move away from all critical infrastructure being inside this heavily defended tower that just promotes dread blobbing. |
 Kitoba Minmatar Legion of Dynamic Discord
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Posted - 2008.07.29 10:46:00 - [ 2]
I will sign almost anything that makes people use smaller ships and spread out more. |
 Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.29 14:34:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 29/07/2008 17:25:38I'd of course love to hear from a dev as to whether they shelved environmental effects for a technical reason, in which case this is all moot, or whether it's something they'd still like to hear more on. Pretty please?  Edit: Makes note in future not to post ideas just after a controversial dev blog... |
 Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.30 12:36:00 - [ 4]
Bumping - come on, it's got to be more interesting than arguing about nano-ships...  |
 Eshud Uktar Uktar Raiders |
Posted - 2008.07.30 13:57:00 - [ 5]
I like the idea so i'll sign it. EVE wouldn't suffer from tactical enviroments in my opinion. |
 Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.30 17:50:00 - [ 6]
I'm still surprised that nobody has said 'oh my god this is a terrible idea!' which is mildly encouraging.
I also was wondering about alternative environments as well as simply restricting ship sizes. Another one that came to mind was 'fog' or 'nebula' environs (given what nebula are, probably system-wide) where targeting takes much longer and targeting range is reduced due to interference. This wouldn't empower people with sensor boosters directly, as the effect would be the same reduction for everyone, but it might mean that certain tactics like stealth bombers or force recon ambushes become more or less favourable, depending on how you exploit it.
Just some random ideas, and I bet they've been covered before. I still prefer the ship one in the OP by far. |
 Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.30 13:05:00 - [ 7]
It's a necro but what the hell, I see no good reason just to repost all this. I originally posted this at a time of great churning on the forums, so this is a one-off bump to see if anyone else wishes to contribute now that things have calmed down a bit. If not, I'll let it die a deserved quiet death  |
 Shane Moorey |
Posted - 2008.08.30 15:21:00 - [ 8]
Nice idea I really would like to see that smaller ships get more important. There would be some interesting tactical changes if this would be implemented. |
 Charles Viran Caldari J0urneys End Journeys End Alliance |
Posted - 2008.08.30 15:26:00 - [ 9]
agreed.
I would love to see tactical environments put in place. especially if some reward system (exploration, mining, rats, ext) was put in place to increase the reasons to hold these systems. |
 TaatelinTallaaja Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers |
Posted - 2008.08.30 17:04:00 - [ 10]
./signed |
 Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.01 10:25:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Charles Viran I would love to see tactical environments put in place. especially if some reward system (exploration, mining, rats, ext) was put in place to increase the reasons to hold these systems.
Well in a different thread, arguing about blobs, one complaint was that POSes hold all the critical targets and wouldn't it be great if some stuff was separate - unfortunately just making it so you can stick them elsewhere just means huge blobs have even more vulnerable targets. By comparison if you could hide a cyno-jammer inside an environmental effect, defending it with smaller ships alone, that opens up some interesting tactical ideas for people to play with. That itself is a reward in that you don't need a huge blob of capitals to defend said jammer. That said, I think the idea of additional reasons to go inside these effects would also be wise. |
 Malik Mantille Minmatar Dark Sun Collective A.X.I.S |
Posted - 2008.10.21 08:44:00 - [ 12]
I to would like to see some response from eve's dev team. I love eve, been in and out on several accounts since beta. The one thing I've always felt is that the environmental effects out there are...well non existent (closest thing you get to EE is when you're near the sun and you can see the dated animations of the corona lashing around...albeit this is purely visual..) |
 Ackuula |
Posted - 2008.10.27 21:44:00 - [ 13]
Woot, search actually found me what I was looking for. So instead of a new post here is a reply!
Different kinds of areas I'd like to see added to systems, not just dead space areas.
Thick asteroid belts with or without mineable rocks, that keep big ships out or possibly even cause them to become stranded. They should be deep enough that you wouldn't be able to lock up and shoot at those hiding in them. Mineable would be interesting, mine your way into the heart of the field and then let it respawn behind you keeping a hidden area cleared out in the middle
Corrosive/high radiation areas that are just the opposite, big ships can easily tank the damage, little ships have no hope of doing so.
Nebula clouds you can reach that drastically reduce your visual range (make grid shrink to 20-30KM), cause sensor damping, make probing difficult, slow down top speed due to drag.
Solar storms that play havoc with navigations systems causing ships to miss their warp targets by a degree or two (or more) while warping, making it very difficult for blob fleets to stay in power balls for long jumps, as well as cause random ECM bursts.
Phenomena that have an affect on various weapon types. Dust clouds disperse lasers Gravity pockets that throw off projectile rounds Debris fields that cause missiles to explode due to damage Strong magnetic fields that cause rail guns to misbehave Malicious virus rouge drone areas that cause drones act weird (I know, that's pretty much everywhere already.)
|
 Girolamo Poquelin |
Posted - 2008.10.29 19:18:00 - [ 14]
/signed |
 Vio Geraci Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2009.01.26 20:59:00 - [ 15]
Although I look forward to environmental effects in general and don't have a problem per se with any ideas thrown out in this thread, I don't think that these reach far enough. If I am fighting in the upper atmosphere of a planet, I want inertia. If I am fighting in micro-asteroid field I want to be knocked every which way. If I am fighting too close to a sun, I want to be taking constant, escalating damage but be shielded from probes. I want these areas to ~feel~ different, not just have some stupid penalty to one kind of turret.
There will also need to be a reason to fight in these areas, especially in 0.0 and lowsec. |
 Milo Caman Gallente Ghost Festival Naraka. |
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:15:00 - [ 16]
/Signed. I like this Idea. Perhaps dense nebula would increase drag, slowing ships down and such. Maybe place these in certain areas, (rather than across EVE, ie- Chokepoints, Strategically Important Systems, Etc.) as a way of testing them? Perhaps Introducing some kind of gravity well system around planets dependent on their size? So warping away from larger gas giants would take longer, or perhaps small anchorables, such as cans, had half their usual lifetime before being re anchored. Anything that makes people think more before jumping into combat is a good thing. |
 Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 12:14:00 - [ 17]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 10/02/2009 12:15:47One particularly harsh one I thought of was a storm in a system that disrupted long-range communications, i.e. players would be unable to chat either in local or other channels, making coordination far harder, but sadly the likes of Vent render this somewhat moot. Then again someone might be able to adapt the idea to something effective. Originally by: Vio Geraci Although I look forward to environmental effects in general and don't have a problem per se with any ideas thrown out in this thread, I don't think that these reach far enough. If I am fighting in the upper atmosphere of a planet, I want inertia. If I am fighting in micro-asteroid field I want to be knocked every which way. If I am fighting too close to a sun, I want to be taking constant, escalating damage but be shielded from probes. I want these areas to ~feel~ different, not just have some stupid penalty to one kind of turret.
I would agree that existing systems could do with more of these subtle effects on top of the larger 'completely game-changing' effects previously mentioned. Suns and planets in particular are in dire need of a makeover beyond a lit texture hanging in space. From what Torfi posted a few weeks back, they want to do at least do the graphical bits of improvement, but it didn't get in in time for Apocrypha. Originally by: Vio Geraci There will also need to be a reason to fight in these areas, especially in 0.0 and lowsec.
Whilst I completely agree, introduce enough 'environment' in the right places and people will find themselves fighting for existing reasons inside environments. For example, add a new system that is limited to cruiser-hulls and below due to gravitational stresses but which contains a couple of dyspro moons (or better yet, an equivalent way to get it that isn't POS-based) and people will find reasons to fight there  . That said, there are some interesting possibilities once Apocrypha is out - since we're getting 'far harder AI' on some NPCs, one could have systems/belts/deadspaces etc. containing effects and these harder NPCs with a decent bounty on them. One could have wormhole systems that are built around effects, making W-space feel more alien along with the rewards that they already offer. A further intriguing thought would be an effect popping up somewhere as the evil Sleeper NPCs come through a wormhole into our space, where say something is leaking through from W-space - populated as perhaps a dynamic complex or exploration site - an tougher extension beyond simple wormholes appearing. |
 H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates |
Posted - 2009.02.10 17:21:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth For example, add a new system that is limited to cruiser-hulls and below due to gravitational stresses but which contains a couple of dyspro moons (or better yet, an equivalent way to get it that isn't POS-based) and people will find reasons to fight there .
I am not an industrialist, so I may be wrong. But is it possible to set up a POS with cruisers and frigates..? What non-POS related way of retrieving moon minerals are you thinking of? Apart from that I sign any idea that makes people use smaller ships. |
 Aethrwolf Caldari Podrratu |
Posted - 2009.02.10 17:59:00 - [ 19]
well.. how about starting with "simple environmental effects? You know.. like when you manage to get a rock or a station or some other object between you and an attacker, then direct fire weapons will be blocked.. that leaves missiles(to counter the recent nerf), artillery (assuming arty is actually indirect fire, ofc), and drones still viable in debris ridden areas. Missiles would still be blocked occasionally if the flight path they take intersects an object. I just think its silly that the can I cant reach cause its in the middle of something in space can easily be tractored out of the mess, and watching missiles fly THROUGH asteroids is kinda funny, too.  just my 2 ISKies worth |
 Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.02.12 15:38:00 - [ 20]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 12/02/2009 15:47:17 Originally by: H Lecter I am not an industrialist, so I may be wrong. But is it possible to set up a POS with cruisers and frigates..? What non-POS related way of retrieving moon minerals are you thinking of?
Oh I didn't want to get into that level of detail really, as you end up crossing so many areas of EVE you'd end up with a thread arguing about all sorts of unrelated details. That said, I'd not explicitly thought about haulers per se, and since your average hauler is roughly cruiser-ish size, you could argue it still counted. The reason I was talking about POSes or the lack thereof in that context wasn't setting up - it's that POSes can be set up to need dreads and heavy tanking and huge POS guns, and that cruisers and below would have trouble taking that on. Originally by: Aethrwolf well.. how about starting with "simple environmental effects? You know.. like when you manage to get a rock or a station or some other object between you and an attacker, then direct fire weapons will be blocked..
See here for why this 'simple' stuff is actually far more complex than effects on existing ships like size or speed of locking or other such stuff. |
 Ashan Sul |
Posted - 2009.02.12 15:59:00 - [ 21]
how do repulsor beams sound? i can't stop grinning when i think of a huge asteroid hitting a blob of ships with a bowling-ball-hits-bowling-pins sound :P
on a more serious tone, a cool thing to consider would be opposite forces pulling apart your ship or crushing it. I'm thinking of, let's say two ships orbiting a third, and both ships having their tractor beams engaged and locked on to the third ship, basically ripping it apart.
On the other hand repulsor beams could be used to keep ships with a range smaller than yours away from you, or pull them inside your range with tractors. Ofc, the enemy ship's mass would be taken in to calculation so it would be easier to push/pull a frigate than to push/pull a bs
What do you think? Does it stand a chance if balanced and tweaked a bit? |
 ShadowDraqon The Quantum Company Independent Faction |
Posted - 2009.05.02 18:26:00 - [ 22]
Bump to good idea. This would specially fit in now, with Apocrypha and it's backstory, "space-time's been f***ed up" thing going on... |