| Author |
Topic |
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.01 22:04:00 - [ 1]
Some general and important tips/things to have in mind:
- DO NOT USE TORPEDOES. They got a huge explosion radius, and 85% of time you'll be shooting cruisers and bc's while doing lvl 4's.
They also got the worst non-capital launcher rate of fire, meaning your missions will go slower than with cruise launchers. Moreover, they have sucky range and are WAY slower than cruise missiles, meaning more success for the rat's defenders (see further below).
Oh, and all of this without mentioning they aren't affected by the Guided Missile Precision skill.
- When doing lvl 4's STAY PUT when you come out of warp, wait a bit, and only answer the fire of those attacking you. This will ensure you don't aggro the whole room.
Exception: The delta support frigates in Enemies Abound 1/5. Just don't shoot them unless you're 50km from the closest rat. Or, fit a smartbomb instead. No prob with the sb.
- Pay attention to the reward your agent offers. If reward + bonus are over 3m, and you never did that mission before, check sites like www.eveinfo.com, or ask in local or corp chat for advice. Don't ever accept a mission without at least some clue about what's in there.
- Regarding Drones: Use Hammerheads/ Hobgoblins, these are the thermal ones. Always. Maybe, maybe sometimes, the kinetic ones. Why? Well if you compare stats, the thermal drones got a 1.6 dmg multiplier. Kinetics got a 1.45 one(iirc). The others even down to 1.3.
This means that thermal drones deal a 30% more dmg, thus, most of the time this will offset and even cause more damage than if using the least resisted type.
- Carry seven medium thermals. The difference with lights is way offset by the time it takes to reel either of them back in and re-deploy.
- Loot using an Indy, or an Osprey with cargo expanders. Any case, with of course tractor beams and a sensor booster for faster locking of cans. Don't ever use the Raven for looting, unless you're say, 3 jumps away, in which case replace a NOS for a tractor beam before even departing. (Setup below)
- Don't stress yourself over wasted volleys. That rat alone you're shooting probably finances the whole mission's ammo expenses.
- Get a Gist b-type XL booster as soon as you can, it's worth every single penny. Don't pay more than 430m for it though. I payed 400m for mine. Even more, I made my whole Raven investment back in 20-25 days of playing an average of 3hrs/day. So don't be afraid at all of making such a purchase.
- Train Missile Projection, to lvl 3 or 4. This skill, in addition to your Caldari Battleship one will make your missiles fly faster. No, it's not about the range, it's about the missile landing before the rat's defender does.
It's another way of enhancing your dps.
The clearest example is vs. any Machariel-Class bs rat. They orbit really close, and it's funny to see their defenders (many times up to 3!) banish in space fruitlessly.
- Always NOS something. If it's a battleship, great. Then work your way down from there. Sometimes it's even advisable to leave some rat alive, just to have it as your NOS *****. However, kill it as soon as it stops yielding cap. In long battles, remember to switch your NOS target every now and then, too.
- Don't forget you can 1 volley MWD'ing frigs. Takes a bit of practice, but worth it for those cases where deploying drones is not an option.
- Only deploy your drones when everything else has already targetted you (flashing red cross). In this way they'll never get shot at.
- Even then, drones might cause aggro from rat groups that are at 40-45km or closer. Keep your "Drones in space" window expanded at all times. Reel them in in case of attack for a full shield recharge. Don't deploy if unsure of the outcome.
My setup:
6 x Arbalest cruise
1 x True Sansha Heavy Nos (30km)
1 x Heavy Diminishing Nos (24km)
1 x Gist b-type XL SB
1 x DG boost amp
4 x T2 hardeners
2 x BCS II
3 x PDS II
Hope somebody finds this helpful, good luck! |
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.01 22:36:00 - [ 2]
Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 01/08/2006 22:46:01
A couple more things:
- If a rat blob (massive amount of ships) aggroes you, stay calm and check how many cruisers and battleships are there. Many times they're mostly destroyers and frigates.
So don't panic, and focus on the heavy dmg dealers first. Send your drones after the cruisers, most of the time they'll have dispatched a cruiser in the time it took you to shoot down a bs.
- If you're prone to panic when confronted by a blob, turn the volume down. Massive yet harmless rocket explosions can get annoying.
- When warping in in the middle of a rat group (15km or less), shoot the battleships first. Will minimize/nullify their defenders.
- When fighting from farther away, shoot the cruisers first instead. Also wait a bit (like stated above) and drone the frigs and dessies. Then start shooting the bs's.
- Assess the situation carefully, many times it's a turret/sentry the "rat" you have to let live for a while for NOS'ing.
- When doing a mission for the first time, it doesn't hurt to pre-align before shooting anything. Set your speed at say, 5m/s (click on the speed dial), and keep the course. Will keep the ship from leveling to the horizon while not making you aggro other, close-by rat groups.
- If you're totally clueless about what hardeners to fit, equip an EM, a Thermal and 2 Invuls (all T2). It'll give you over 70% to every resist, with Kinetic quite close to it. This setup works great vs. multiple dmg type dealers, like those found in "Silence the Informant".
Note: I only got 5.5m sp's or so, 2.1 of them in learning. I haven't had any problems yet.
So far I've done Guristas Extravaganza, Right Hand of Zazzmatazz, Enemies Abound (not the 5/5 though, not sure it can be done without a CNR), Silence the Informant, etc, quite a couple times each.
Anyway, will edit as I have more time, safe flying! :)
1st Edit: the note. |
James Saumerez |
Posted - 2006.08.01 23:02:00 - [ 3]
Good tips. Thanks, I needd them.
Silence the informant is still a pain in my azz. |
K'thang
Gallente
Ferengi Trade Alliance |
Posted - 2006.08.01 23:05:00 - [ 4]
Short but clear and well written. I would think this would help a few people, both new and old alike. Good work! |
Caol
Minmatar |
Posted - 2006.08.01 23:23:00 - [ 5]
Edited by: Caol on 01/08/2006 23:24:55Good points going on the current mission mechanics. A few extra things that may be interesting to add (for the new player):  How much did a setup such as yours cost. What threats from Pirates should you be aware of and what action can be taken to keep being rubbled to a minimum. What sec systems are "you" happy running missions in ... with that setup. How much you would say you make per a period of time (on average say). Possible links to the many other Raven setup threads there are. Edits - typo's  |
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.02 00:20:00 - [ 6]
Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 02/08/2006 00:57:13Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 02/08/2006 00:45:41 Quote:
A few extra things that may be interesting to add (for the new player):
How much did a setup such as yours cost.
What threats from Pirates should you be aware of and what action can be taken to keep being rubbled to a minimum.
What sec systems are "you" happy running missions in ... with that setup.
How much you would say you make per a period of time (on average say).
Possible links to the many other Raven setup threads there are.
Surething, here I go: I payed for the whole setup in this way: Raven - 96m. Gist b-type XL Shield booster - 400m. Arbalest launchers - 8-10m each. Heavy Diminishing Nos - 8m each. This part comes close to the 580m mark. All of them acquired in Jita. The hardeners, BCS and PDS are the ones I was using in my Ferox. I did lvl 3's for 2 1/2 months, while doing the learning skills. Alright it was boring as hell, but profitable nonethless. I finished doing lvl 3's with 600m in my wallet. Purchased the Raven and still waited for some more skills to be finished while doing some more lvl 3's. - Hey, doing lvl 4's is my well deserved reward after that hellish learning skill/ lvl 3 grind. - Also it wouldn't be rare for peeps to have those hand-me-downs from their battlecruisers, too. - As I said above, it just took me 20-25 days, 3hrs/day average to make the initial investment back. Purchased the Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amp and True Sansha Nos in the last week. I'm still 150m over the initial investment. Granted, in the last 10-15 days I've been playing an average of 5hrs/day. To keep answering those valid points: In order to avoid the pirate threat to a maximum, simply work for agents that do not have nearby low-sec systems. Use People and Places, search for, say, "Caldari Navy". Check the location of any agent of your interest in the map and make sure no 0.4 or less systems lies within 3 jumps. Earlier in May, this year, infamous Hageken got their agents moved to avoid massive lag. Uber lvl 3 agent, Motsu (same name as the system) got moved to Oimmo, a system with more than one neighboring 0.4. Needless to say, poor Motsu is quite alone these days. This is NOT a pvp setup. Well, just as any missioning setup where you put your best mods into it. - Even then, if you stay in safe sec systems (0.5 and above) your tank will definitely last enough for Concord to arrive and dispatch the offenders. - However, if you're still afraid of being jumped while running a mission (something still rare even in low sec, because it requires probes, coordination and patience), just warp away as soon as a player warps in into your room. - Anyway, Hi Sec has it's name for a reason. Some safe systems to run missions into such a setup, are for instance: Ohmalainen(sp?), Paara, Motsu, Aramachi. Close to monster market Jita, too, where you can make a weekly haul to sell all your loot. And get new mods as well. - Also use instas, and you'll even be free from the Jita suicide pirates. I can safely say I net at least 10m per lvl 4 hour. Sometimes even more. Loot adds some more. But of course, missions are a variable, too. Stuff like "The Score" (3 cruisers and a scorp BS rat) that can even be done in a Ferox aren't precisely the ones that make you rich. Raven setups can be found in either the Ships and Modules section of the forum, stickied, or also right here in the missions section, which seems to have been necro'ed :) However, please no one think I'm saying every single lvl 4 is easy... In the tougher ones, like Enemies Abound you have to know well when and what to pull. That's why I made clear that getting advice or checking other sites is important when the agent-offered reward is too high. Cheers Edit: Typos, some content. Twice... lol |
Hickock
Caldari
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc. |
Posted - 2006.08.02 06:35:00 - [ 7]
Excellent post, good advice offered in a clear concise way. Thanks |
Geno Side
Semper D
|
Posted - 2006.08.02 09:04:00 - [ 8]
very nice guide tho i aint agreeing with it all but thats a matter of choice first off i got 8,70 or so RoF with my siege launcers and they Do hurt also i advice to train 500000 or so SP in drones will increase the damage they do by 50% my vespa T2 take down enemie frigs dests cruisers insanely fast and T2 variets nearly as fast also if you do missions as caldari 90% of your enemies are mercenaries / guristas = most vulnarble to kinetic so stick to that
regarding what to look for when doing missions to make it more safe .i suggest use Eve-info.com to see what and which ships scrambling in the missions no sense in trying to warp out when your scrambled
ohmy is right tho keeping your cool = alfa N omega
regarding setup its matter of choice in all missions but angel extrava i use 2 in angel i use 3
my normal mid lvl setup are 1 gist b type xlarge 2 dread guristas boost amps 2 hardeners T2 or best named and 1 T2 sensorboost ( i like fast locktime )
gives me 1250 ish shield per 3,2 sec for 175 cap = very hard to break
also 1 last important thing = the right damage for the right job no sense in using explosion vs guristas kinetic vs angels etc etc
ask in mission chat or help chat always someone willing to help and the right ammo = greatly increased chance of succes
|
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.02 17:27:00 - [ 9]
Hey there, I think Geno wields a couple points I agree with, and some I must differ, here's why: You got a 8.7 rof with sieges, this means you got good skills, but actually even better modules. This is great. But, even then, that cash with those skills would yield an even better cruiser rof :-) - Granted, siege launchers are cheaper than cruise missiles, but I humbly believe cruise are better for all the reasons I mentioned in my first posts :-) Vespas are the kinetic drones, those I did mention as usable sometimes. But check this out, if you look at the rats you usually send your drones against (frigs and cruisers), and pay attention to their resists, you'll notice that the kinetic and thermal resists for frigs are about the same (if not exactly the same), while they have a tiny difference in the case of cruisers. (Source: Eveinfo.com) - And Hammerheads deal 15% more dmg than Vespas. This offsets and even causes them to deal more dmg even vs the, in this case, least resisted gurista type, which is kinetic. T2 drones, I totally agree with this. Nothing to argue here. I just hope no one understood I wasn't supporting an idea like this. - Also, "Drone Navigation" is a Rank 1 skill, fast to train to say, lvl 4, that increases drone speed. A faster drone = a drone that reaches their targets sooner = more overall dps! :-) I also completely agree with the dmg type vs. specific rats. And with the right hardeners vs. the right rats. I thought this was clear when I said eveinfo.com and the like are the thing to always check out before accepting a mish :-) Anyway, thank you all guys who posted here! Also, later today I'll post some of those hard missions walkthroughs. |
Laekon
Ultrapolite Socialites |
Posted - 2006.08.02 19:53:00 - [ 10]
Could anyone list the most important(but not obvious like caldari bs) skills and the ranks you need before using this setup. I'm trying to get into lvl4 missions as fast as I can to start making isk. I'm currently running lvl3's in a Cyclone with less then 3mil sp and most of it in learning. I'm doing fine though with no lost ships and soloed Angel Extravagnza last night(just 2 warp outs and 1 was to get ammo). Its still going to take me a bit to get to lvl4 missions since it will probably be a month till I have the faction and money needed. |
Veiland Flex |
Posted - 2006.08.02 21:42:00 - [ 11]
Well id like to know how much using a XL SB II will change the above equation, since thats what most new ppl will be using. How is your cap holding up ? |
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.02 22:24:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 03/08/2006 04:41:00Hey guys! Fast answer, still at work :-) Required skills- Electronics:* Targetting 3 or 4, * Signature Analysis, 3 or 4. * Electronics 5. (One of the few lvl 5's), * Long Range Targetting: Lvl 2 is ok.. the more, the merrier though. * Rest at lvl 1 across the board. Not like you'll need much EW for your missions :-) - Engineering: lvl 4 across the board. Including: * Tact. Shield Manipulation <--- YOU WANT T2 HARDENERS!! * Cap and shield size and recharge rate, * NOS skill (Only lvl 3 for this one, enough to use heavy NOS's, * Engineering itself, * Shield Compensation: I always went with lvl 2, but will be lvl 4 in a few hours, and * Shield upgrades. (leftover from using Ferox Large Shield Ext II) * Energy Grid Upgrades. * Smartbomb skill: Just lvl 1. * Take cap and shield recharge to 5 as soon as you can though! - Missile Launcher Operation:* MLO itself: lvl 5 (needed for cruise missiles), * Cruise Missiles: lvl 3 or 4. 4 better :-P, * Rapid Launch: lvl 4 at least, * Guided Missile Precision: Lvl 4, * Missile Bombardment: Lvl 3 does for a while, * Warhead Upgrades: Again, lvl 3 or 4, * Missile Projection: Once more, 3 or 4, * Prereqs for Cruise Missiles: 3 in heavies and standards. - Gunnery* Gunnery the minimum needed for Weapon Upgrades, * Weapon Upgrades 4 at least, to fit BCS II's. * Advanced Weapon Upgrades: Isn't really needed in a Raven. With PDS II's you'll always have plenty of grid. Right now I got like 1300 spare grid  ... unless you go torps *cough* - Drones* Drones 5, * Drone Interfacing 4, * Scout Drone Operation 4, * Combat Drone Operation 3 or 4, * For T2 drones (they're grrreat), you'll need Scout Drone Ops 5 and Gallente Drone Specialization 2, if talking about using Hammerheads 2. * Drone Navigation 4, it's a nice skill to have, and fast to take there. * Drone Sharpshooting: Meh.. pretty much useless for med or light drones. Useful and needed at lvl 4 for sentries, which I wouldn't use in a Raven. - Spaceship Command* Whatever you need for Caldari Battleship (Frig 4, Cruise 4, Spaceship Command 4, too I think) * Caldari Battleship: Lvl 3 to undock for the first time. Take to lvl 4 asap. To 5 of course it would be great, but don't neglect other faster, and very useful skills before starting with it. Think this is it regarding skills, will edit if I remember anything else. Regarding the XL SB II- DO NOT USE IT!! - The XL C5-L Shield Booster is better, and maybe even cheaper. - Compare it's stats and do the math, shield boosted, cap required, time between boosts :-) - It would change the equation to some point, you'll mostly need to make sure Shield Compensation is at lvl 4 at least, and never ever forget to NOS something. - For the vast majority of lvl 4's, you won't be using it so much anyway. With a good Shield Boost Amplifier you'll be fine, since the XL C5-L yields a nice amount of shield. Okies once again, I hope this helped you guys, need to go back to work :-P Happy hunting! |
Shadarle |
Posted - 2006.08.03 02:39:00 - [ 13]
Are you sure about the XL shield booster? I was pretty sure all T2 shield boosters were 1.5 shield per energy base rate while the named boosters were between 1.05-1.2 shield per energy. I never really examined the XL boosters much, as I use a T2 Large for level 3's... but I thought I noticed the 1.5x pattern on all booster.
Either way it seems like a better idea to get a faction large booster than to use a named t1 XL booster or a t2 XL booster. Getting 2.x or 3.x efficiency is far better than the 1.x efficiency from the XL's. Unless of course you buy a faction XL like you said earlier... which is obviously the way to go :) |
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.03 04:38:00 - [ 14]
Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 03/08/2006 04:58:15
Hey, sorry I couldn't be more precise earlier today.
Actually both boosters yield 120hp/sec, with a 4 second cycle time for the C5-L and a 5 seconds one for the T2. So in a, say, 20 seconds lapse, you payed 2000 cap with the C5-L and 1600 with the T2, while getting the same amount of boosting (2400hp's). This would mean the T2 is the best option.
However, when considering the fitting requirements, and the amount of hp's per second you get, it's more advisable to fit a C5-L than a T2.
Other factors to consider are the skill requirements and in the very, very last wagon, price.
You can do lvl 4's with Shield Operation IV and Electronics IV. Heck that's how I started. Granted, my Raven had the faction booster fit before I even started shooting stuff. Though I quickly needed to max Electronics cause better stuff just wouldn't fit.
And having to use fitting mods in a battleship, in my humble opinion, is an abhorrance. Excepting of course the uber PDS II, which aren't really fitting mods.
Also, since it's not a passive tanker, a player might want to develope the other vital skills before maxing shield regen.
The faster you sit in your ship, the faster you start making cash. Just be sure you won't lose it on your first mission.
So yes, initially the T2 is more efficient and seemingly the best option. But when the other factors come into play, I would end up steering towards the C5-L instead, until I make enough cash for a faction booster.
I apologize again, but when I answered the previous posts (even when I came up with a long one) I really didn't have any more time for this answer :-) |
Shadarle |
Posted - 2006.08.03 08:50:00 - [ 15]
Wouldn't a T2 large booster be enough boost? Considering you're already running the small booster. Do you really need that massive XL booster? I can understand if you don't pay attention until you're at 40% shields you may not be able to recover... but if you're watching your shields, shouldn't you be able to use the large booster if you know you're going to continue to take more dmg than you can handle?
I've not done many LVL 4's... but I've never noticed the damage being all that sudden and unpredictable that I couldn't have downgraded to a Large T2 instead of my T1 if I had had a nice faction small booster to help out the whole time.
Also, there is a pretty massive efficiency difference between the named XL and the T2 XL... if someone is having problems running a level 4 mission they won't be doing too well if they run out of cap 20% sooner :) I agree it's hard to fit the XL T2... but that's my primary reason for asking about a Large T2. Or even a faction large booster (good efficiency and easier fitting and similar overall boost per sec compared to the T1/T2 xl booster). |
James Saumerez |
Posted - 2006.08.03 10:04:00 - [ 16]
Quote:
- For the vast majority of lvl 4's, you won't be using it so much anyway. With a good Shield Boost Amplifier you'll be fine, since the XL C5-L yields a nice amount of shield.
I do not understand this statement. I must surely be doing something wrong. I have almost all of the skills you mention. I do not have Cal BS 4 (have 3) I also only have Drone Interfacing 3 and some of the other drone skills are only at 2 or 3. Other than that I have pretty much everything you mentioned. I use my shield booster a lot. I mean I usually have to warp in and kill a few things and warp out. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum. I am not sure what I am doing wrong. I do attempt to only engage enemy that are already shooting at me. My set-up is this: 6x Arb Cruise 2x Heavy Nos XL C5-L SB Shield boost amp 2x invuln tech 2 2x rat specific hardeners (following the advice on eveinfo.com) low slots I try to fit: 2x BCU t2 3x PDS t2 But I usually end up with 3x warp core stabs and 2x PDS t2. I have lost 3 ravens on level 4s. One was due to lag and the other 2 because I got scrambled and could not bravely run away. Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong? 2x |
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:13:00 - [ 17]
Edited by: Ohmy Fugod on 03/08/2006 12:59:36@ Shardarle: I agree with you, if you're running a small booster, you should be fine with a Large T2. Of course much better with a faction one. I ain't using said booster though, yet. So far however, fortunately been doing quite good with my missions. But I think I owe it more to player advice, eveinfo and the forums than to the sbooster :-) Even then I've seen tons of Raven setups that use a single good Large one, and fit either 2 amps or an amp and a cap recharger, some also use cap boosters for an injection when needed. Here's a prob with lvl 4s worth mentioning however: - Most of them, as I said in my previous post, don't deal dps in a way you need to use your sb a lot. - And ironically, some of them, or some parts of them, come up with so much dps it makes you wonder how come those rats didn't take over a small system already. So to answer your question, it depends on how you're doing: If you see yourself running outta cap too soon, fit an L, if you run outta shield too soon, fit an XL. If you run outta everything too fast, re-plan the mission :-P (took that from somewhere else) Also, very good (and brave) players boost at 30% shield, to maximize the regular shield regen. I don't have the bal1$ to do that yet. Anyway, setups vary greatly and by no means I implied mine's the "one" :-) @ James Your setup looks pretty much like a lot you can see listed right here in the same forums man. Even the staple 2 invuls. Check this link out: Lvl 4 Raven Setups threadI can however give you a couple pointers: - The Invuls II, if rats don't deal the four dmg types, aren't really needed and might even be a drawback, since they require more cap than the standard ones. - So Vs. Guristas (who must be the ones we Caldari get most missions against), or Serpentis, Sanshas, and even some Angel or Mercenaries missions, you're actually not maximizing your resists, and spending more cap than you should. - This one's important: There're some missions that are just too hard and are meant to be done after getting advice or checking the forums. I can't stress this enough. As I said above, I really, really believe that's the key to success in lvl 4's, more than sheer tankage or dps (well, they always help anyway :-p) Here's a list of hard missions that fall into what I wrote above: - Right Hand of Zazzmatazz: Multiple dmg types and a huge amount of dps. - Vengeance: Not the first 2 rooms as much as the last one. - Silence the Informant: Multiple dmg types, too. - Enemies Abound series: Requires careful pulling and targetting. Whole room blobs are not unheard of. Dps are high as well and multiple dmg types are present. I know players in CNR's and faction mods that still refuse to accept the 5/5th part. Excepting the 2/5 part, that can be done in an Ibis :-P - World's Collide: High dps, requires careful drone usage, careful pulling. HAC rats that orbit beyond non-faction NOS range. Not many dmg types buy one mistake and you're in serious trouble. - Extravaganzas (Guristas, Angel): Well these more than hard are, say, long. Very good isk/hour ratio. These consist of several rooms of rats with a bonus one at the end. Some rooms can be tricky to pull and mistakes like shooting the wrong thing leads to whole room aggro. If unaligned or scrambled, you're toast. So, until you get the hand of it, choose your missions carefully! And try to stay away from using stabs, they do gimp your dps, tank and cap. Anyway man, keep informing yourself and trying. Losing a ship to lag is not your fault. But in my humble opinion, you're in the right path. |
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:37:00 - [ 18]
James, a couple more things I was thinking about:
- It's also important to pick well which rats to start shooting first, mainly when you're being attacked by multiple npc's at the same time.
- If you got a lot of different, possible targets farther than 15-20kms and you choose to begin hitting a battleship, all those few-volleys-able cruisers and battlecruisers will have a party.
This knowledge however comes from practice or reading. It's hard, though, to find posts that list rat killing priorities. That's why I wanted to start writing those walkthroughs, so everyone can share what they've learnt.
- Also, check that you never forget to be NOS'ing something, remember npc's don't seem to be affected by more than one NOS, and also that sometimes letting a rat live to be used as cap reservoir is not a bad idea.
- Upgrade to Heavy Diminishing Nos as soon as possible! The difference is very important!
- Mind that if you can NOS a battleship for a while, you're pretty much set. NOS'ing a bs and something else bigger than a frig usually means the room is yours.
Anyway, please feel free to convo or evemail me if you have any questions. |
DrakeStone
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Celestial Industrial Alliance |
Posted - 2006.08.03 13:26:00 - [ 19]
Ohmy: excellent, excellent guide. I actually spents months ratting and have since moved down to 0.0 but came across this thread. Anytime I can pick up one point I didn't think about in a post, it is a good one. I came aross two or three from your thread - nice job. Your point about missile velocity (and the skill to increase it) being valuable in exceeding the speed of the NPC defenders, I hadn't pondered. Here is a good one off of such a point: Defender missiles are one of the last damage types in-game to do collateral damage. Many newer players (and old alike) will target a rat, then queue up all of the missiles before the target is aquired. This then sends one big concurrent volley of missiles to the npc at the same time. If that NPC uses defenders, and the defenders hit, it will take out MULTIPLE missiles from your volley due to the collateral damage. When firing up defender missile wielding NPC's, time your launchers so they are in a steady stream and only one missile will be negated at contact. |
James Saumerez |
Posted - 2006.08.03 16:38:00 - [ 20]
Thanks for the replies.
I just strted playing again after being away for a couple months (lost 2 months training time!).
Prior to going away I had done a handful of level 4s. That is when I lost all those ravens. Since coming back I have finished Eliminate the Informant (took a long time and a lot of warping). I am now working through Angel Extravaganza. Eveinfo indicates using all 4 resists on both these missions. I'd dearly love to get back to fighting some good ol' guristas.
I am really not comfortable doing these with no stabs yet.
My goal now is to learn to pull only the small groups rather than tanking the whole room.
I was finishing the 4th room of Angel Extravaganza when I had to log off so it should be repopped for me now. I am going to go practice :) |
Shadarle |
Posted - 2006.08.03 18:30:00 - [ 21]
"2x invuln tech 2
2x rat specific hardeners (following the advice on eveinfo.com)"
Ok, I meant to comment on the 2xInvulns and 2x hardeners before, but I didn't because it was technically correct in the original post. But people are apparantly mis-understanding it.
You should not use this as a GENERAL setup. This is only for missions where 4 damage types are dealt in nearly equal quantities and/or you don't know what type of dmg you'll face. This is NOT a good setup for missions against rats that do two damage types primarily. It is quite bad actually.
Due to stacking penalties those Invulns are doing almost nothing for you. If you're facing Gurista's, get 2 Kin and 2 Therm hardeners. With tech 1 hardeners thats 50% dmg reduction + 40% reduction of the remaining damage. In other words a 70% damage reduction of what you'd take without them on while spending 80 cap per cycle. On the other hand, with 1 hardners and 2 invulns you reduce damage by 50% then 20% then 12.5% or about a 65% overall reduction. Unfortunately you're spending 20+20+40+40= 120 cap per cycle. So you spend 50% more cap on them to get less resists towards the actual damage types you're taking.
Never run a general resist setup if you are forced to warp out... you obviously need more tanking. Specifically fit all hardeners for each mission. 4 hardeners, 2 of each type works for most missions. 2x1x1 (Kin/Therm/EM) for example is even decent if you're taking a lot of Kin dmg and a bit of Therm/EM. Invuln fields are really inefficient and stack horribly with other hardeners... avoid them if you can unless you buy ultra good ones (far better than t2). |
James Saumerez |
Posted - 2006.08.03 19:12:00 - [ 22]
I need more info on how to avoid agroing the whole room.
I think my mistake may be that I am using the overview to target. If a ships icon is blinking red that means it is targeting me and if the orangeish corners appear around the red cross that means it is firing at me?
I have been trying to fire at only the ones that are firing at me and hoping that would work.
I just warped out of the first room of Angel Extravaganza because the entire room was pounding me again. |
Shadarle |
Posted - 2006.08.03 19:25:00 - [ 23]
If you attack a ship that is within aggro distance of other ships, those ships will aggro you as well. Sometimes you just have to wait for ships to get out of aggro range of their friends... unfortunately the only way to determine that aggro range is trial and error.
Generally turrets are no-no's to shoot at first. A turret when fired upon, aggro or not, will generally cause all other ships in the area to aggro you instantly. |
Trioxis
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 20:26:00 - [ 24]
I must say this is a good guide, and I'm going to try the things you recommended. I haven't been on lvl 4's for a long time like you people might have been (doing lvl 4's for about a week now). I'm currently confident enough to do the Unauthorized Militairy Presence, Infiltrated Outposts, The Score and Sabotage the Supply Line solo.
One thing I'm wondering is the shieldtank setup I'm using. Currently I have a T2 Large and 3x specific Hardeners running 24/7 thanks to 4x CPR in lows and 1x Cap Recharger in meds. I use an Amp to fix the penalty from the CPR's, so my boosting stays about the same as a unmodified T2 Large. This setup keeps my shields repairing till hell freezes over, so is it worth changing my setup to a XL booster or should I keep my setup as it is now?
Full setup:
Hi:
6x Cruise Missile Launchers I
1x any gun (I change it according to the rats I'm dealing with)
1x Heavy Nosferaty I
Med:
1x T2 Large shieldbooster
3x specific Hardener
1x Boost Amp I
1x Cap Recharger I
Low:
4x Cap Power Relay I
1x Ballistics Control Unit I (I can use T2 but I'm not going to risk to much T2 yet untill I've got some more experience and skills)
Any comments and\or advice?
|
Geno Side
Semper D
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 20:42:00 - [ 25]
the way which you approch each missions once your in the fight is important etc if a tons of frigs cruisers aggro you the 1s with 25 to 30 k bounty needs attention fast since they tend to web/scramble you and thats a killer if you need to get out
also i would advise agaisnt cap relays if i remember correct they lower shield something ? Pds (power diagnostic system)adds grid shield regen cap regen total shield i got 11901 shield on my raven with my current setup
anyways from sunday evening i am back in empire after PVPing in lowsec for a few days
i am based in isikemi feel free to convo me with questions or i might even be able to take you on a lvl 4 miss to show how i do it ( and i are by no means a expect but i do all lvl 4 but enemies about ) |
Trioxis
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 20:46:00 - [ 26]
The Cap Power Relays have a -10% shieldboostamount penalty. But the CPR are what keep my cap up to sustain my T2 Large at running 24/7. I can run the T2 Large and 3 hardeners at about 40% cap, without NoS. Using a XL would certainly drain my cap as it uses way more of it. If I'd be using the XL version I could change my setup to deal more damage I suppose, but is the tradeoff worth it? |
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.03 21:48:00 - [ 27]
Hey again,
@ Drake:
Thank you very much man :-) Makes me happy to know folks are finding a use to this thread - the least I could do to return all the help I've always been given.
- The defenders coltl. dmg issue: Wow, simply, wow, I didn't know that. I'll include it above later :-)
@ James and Shad:
- There are ways of pulling rats from inside a group without aggroing the whole thing :-) Unfortunately, it's not a technique but knowledge about how that particular room works and thus it doesn't apply to every mission :-(
- As soon as I have more time I'll post more walkthroughs, for instance for Guristas Extravaganza or Enemies Abound, where it can be done with great success.
- James, you do have to use your overview to target. It's the best option. Just don't abuse ctrl-click because entities there switch places all the time (unless you got them sorted by name) and sometimes you might end up wasting precious targetting time by locking on an unwanted rat.
- Flashing red cross is enough. The trick, as Shad says, is sometimes letting them get closer before opening fire. Even then sometimes rats just get annoyed cause you opened fire on a particular ship (IE, Enemies Abound, don't shoot the damn frigs). I hope to get an Angel Ex. soon so I can get some fresh details to type about.
- It also happened to me that rats got p!$*3D at the sheer fact of targetting them. Paranoid fellas :p
- And sometimes, aggroing a group that's even nicely away from another one, will cause the latter to fight as well.
- And unfortunately, blob aggro sometimes it's just unavoidable. Those are the missions that keep your adrenaline pumping :-)
- As Shad said, it's a matter of trial an error, or beforehand preparation.
Cheers |
Ohmy Fugod |
Posted - 2006.08.03 22:24:00 - [ 28]
@ Trioxis:
- Hey, I never tried your setup. But as the guy above said, check how many hp's your booster is yielding after all those cap relays.
- There is, even then, a post in the Raven lvl 4 setups thread, of a guy who uses 1 amp, 1 gist b-type Xlarge, 3 hardeners and a cap recharger II, and with 3 PDS II in lo's, he says he can keep it running forever. Not the first time I hear about it, although it requires an expensive mod to check out.
- Anyway, try to get T2 stuff as soon as you can. The difference between T1 BCS's and T2, is huge. T2 hardeners are very important too. Get named launchers also. The faster you kill something, the less you need to tank.
- And last but not least, mind there're some missions where the amount of dps they spit at you is utterly terrifying.
Whether a continuous, though degraded (due to cap relays) T2 large would do in these cases, I sadly cannot say. So this brings up your question, whether to switch to XL or not.
Well you'll not always need to keep your booster running. Actually at most you'll need a few bursts. So the extra dps you'll get from fitting 2 T2 BCS's and better launchers will be highly noticeable.
Good luck! |
James Saumerez |
Posted - 2006.08.03 23:26:00 - [ 29]
Ok, the first room in Angel Extravaganza is apparently buggy or something because I followed the guide and the hardener advice of Shad and ended up warping etc.
When I finished the first room and warped into the second, everything worked like a charm. I was able to pull the little blobs one at a time and never had to warp and was never in any real trouble with cap or shields. I finished room 3 and 4 the same way. Not even challenging really.
I am still very leery of removing the stabs but maybe after I have some more success I will gain a bit more confidence.
Anyway, it looks like I am on the right track now. Thanks for the help. |
Shadarle |
Posted - 2006.08.03 23:35:00 - [ 30]
It's possible that because you mispulled the first time in, everything was grouped together oddly and thus all aggroed each time you warped back in in the future. If it was a fresh AE then I don't know what to tell ya :)
I know that on a Massive Attack 3 I decided to try smartbombs (3 of em) to see how it would work out... since lots of ships get close on that mission. I took out a good portion of the third stage close ships right away... but the entire room aggro'd me for no reason. I chalked it up to them disliking smartbombs... and I even had to warp out with a Raven. So I came back, fired 1 missile and they all aggrod again. So I just blew em all up that time.
Aggro in EVE is a bit trickier than in games like WoW/DAOC/etc. Working in 3D space with such a massive amount of different ships/weapons/mods/etc makes it very hard to pin down exact causes. |
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