This is an announcement about missiles going under an overhaul which can be tested on the Test Server (known as Singularity or as SISI), it has been expected by many for quite some time where multiple tests were done with the missile system last year.
Note that the overhaul is not meant as a nerf to missile users although it will greatly change current gameplay from what you are used to, the change is intended to get missiles balanced into the size-classed combat of EVE with turrets, but still giving them a different flavor. It will dramatically increase the survivability of smaller vessels and facilitate team-play by making all ship classes more usable.
The main changes are in these four steps:
1. Size Factored Damage:
Bigger missiles are now doing less damage to smaller targets; the damage is scaled by the targets Signature Radius using a new attribute on the missile called Explosion Radius.
2. Velocity Factored Damage:
Velocity will stay a factor in missile combat in the sense that it can reduce the damage if the target can outrun the missile explosion, missiles have an individual threshold where the damage starts getting reduced by vessels velocity and how fast the damage gets reduced by per m/s.
3. Faster Missiles:
Missiles are now travelling much faster than known and will be able to cross long distances at greatly reduced time.
4. More Skills:
Loads of new skills have been added to the Missile Operation skill group that allow players to get more damage, faster missiles, more range and to add new parameters that missiles now relay on.
A forum thread has been made to support this dev blog (click this text), which goes more into details and will be updated with system and tuning changes, also open for discussion, comments & feedback. Players are advised rather to post in that thread as it will be getting more attention than this announcement.
Ave,
TomB
Comments
Pantheon Lea on 04 May 2005
wheeee, don't look so bad after all....
wheeee, don't look so bad after all....
Victor Mason on 04 May 2005
Kool Kool looks like missiles will need a bit of planing now :D
Kool Kool looks like missiles will need a bit of planing now :D
Asestorian on 04 May 2005
YAY! Nice one Mr. B of many Toms
YAY! Nice one Mr. B of many Toms
Emno on 04 May 2005
ooo
ooo
Na'Axin on 04 May 2005
your inferno topedo slightly hit Noob-In-A-Frig, causing 0.001 damage.... hope this is tested better then first projectile changes :/ ah well.... Amarr for teh win
your inferno topedo slightly hit Noob-In-A-Frig, causing 0.001 damage.... hope this is tested better then first projectile changes :/ ah well.... Amarr for teh win
Crawler on 04 May 2005
finaly more realistic missiles, now we just need particel density in spac to factor into the explosion
finaly more realistic missiles, now we just need particel density in spac to factor into the explosion
Gunner Stahl on 04 May 2005
Me likes!
Me likes!
SirSpectre on 04 May 2005
Sweet deal. Ahh great...now I have to start training missles... bye bye 90k sp in missles :/
Sweet deal. Ahh great...now I have to start training missles... bye bye 90k sp in missles :/
Nafri on 04 May 2005
wonder if thy keep in mind that matari need missles too, and that training gunnery up to 7million SP and missles to 7 million SP just to be effective in your ship is a pain
wonder if thy keep in mind that matari need missles too, and that training gunnery up to 7million SP and missles to 7 million SP just to be effective in your ship is a pain
booh on 04 May 2005
Well this is not cool if you're not caldari... I really need to put some more SP into gunnery, and now i should train missiles also?
Well this is not cool if you're not caldari... I really need to put some more SP into gunnery, and now i should train missiles also?
Karrimdra on 04 May 2005
Just hope the months of training to get all the skills currently in place to level5 wont be totally nerfed with the new skills coming into place.
Just hope the months of training to get all the skills currently in place to level5 wont be totally nerfed with the new skills coming into place.
Achmed Abdul on 04 May 2005
finally something to chew on.. *tries to log on sisi*
finally something to chew on.. *tries to log on sisi*
Bonaparte on 04 May 2005
this sounds good,missiles needed balancing like the guns.was a bit silly seeing lots of ravens being flown by so many people jus coz of the damage they could deal
this sounds good,missiles needed balancing like the guns.was a bit silly seeing lots of ravens being flown by so many people jus coz of the damage they could deal
Lavaiathon on 04 May 2005
Sounds like a proper plan for a change. Like the idea of faster torps. Sweet.
Sounds like a proper plan for a change. Like the idea of faster torps. Sweet.
Damien Vox on 04 May 2005
Uber Crow is all I have to say...50km orbit, 3 BCM and 3 standard launchers as Discorp said. This isn't good.
Uber Crow is all I have to say...50km orbit, 3 BCM and 3 standard launchers as Discorp said. This isn't good.
Bedrock on 04 May 2005
About time! /me gets in his AF
About time! /me gets in his AF
LargeBreast on 04 May 2005
Bigger missiles are now doing less damage to smaller targets; the damage is scaled by the targets Signature Radius using a new attribute on the missile called Explosion Radius that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard..they should do more dmg not less...
Bigger missiles are now doing less damage to smaller targets; the damage is scaled by the targets Signature Radius using a new attribute on the missile called Explosion Radius that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard..they should do more dmg not less...
LUKEC on 04 May 2005
i just wonder... how will 800m sig of mwding deimos love this... not to mention 2km sig of Mega.... great job
i just wonder... how will 800m sig of mwding deimos love this... not to mention 2km sig of Mega.... great job
AngelAir on 04 May 2005
Hmmm... I am sort of a noob still, but it seems to me this change is more a "make the raven less of a solo-lvl 4" than anything else. More skills needed to be effective in missiles is a good thing. It's been a bit to easy to be effective with missiles SP-wise than for any other weapon system. This change, like with every other they throw our way, is just something new to get used to. And if it doesn't do what they wanted it to, they'll change it again. And we, subsequently, will have to adapt.
Hmmm... I am sort of a noob still, but it seems to me this change is more a "make the raven less of a solo-lvl 4" than anything else. More skills needed to be effective in missiles is a good thing. It's been a bit to easy to be effective with missiles SP-wise than for any other weapon system. This change, like with every other they throw our way, is just something new to get used to. And if it doesn't do what they wanted it to, they'll change it again. And we, subsequently, will have to adapt.
Maya Rkell on 04 May 2005
If it's gonna work this way, then webs need to reduce the target's sig radius
If it's gonna work this way, then webs need to reduce the target's sig radius
Olgzr on 04 May 2005
Well we play a game where you can fit a 3900m3 container in a 3000m3 space. Torps doing less damage to smaller targets than large ones seems reasonable by comparison. But now we know why no one shot torpedoes at row boats in WW2, they knew torps could not damage such a small target.
Well we play a game where you can fit a 3900m3 container in a 3000m3 space. Torps doing less damage to smaller targets than large ones seems reasonable by comparison. But now we know why no one shot torpedoes at row boats in WW2, they knew torps could not damage such a small target.
MAcheTT3 on 04 May 2005
OMG, I've made a mess of my pants. This is good! The Missile thing I mean, not the pants.
OMG, I've made a mess of my pants. This is good! The Missile thing I mean, not the pants.
Suze'Rain on 04 May 2005
urk. well, that's my main screwed :) time to restart learning guns... Overally a good move, from the look of it. look forward to trying it out now. those velocity modifiers sound interesting - I'd love to see fast cruise missiles hurtling at interceptors, and the inter get through by the missiles exploding behind the speeding ship - the sort of stuff of stories.
urk. well, that's my main screwed :) time to restart learning guns... Overally a good move, from the look of it. look forward to trying it out now. those velocity modifiers sound interesting - I'd love to see fast cruise missiles hurtling at interceptors, and the inter get through by the missiles exploding behind the speeding ship - the sort of stuff of stories.
Arbenowskee on 04 May 2005
AT LAST!!!
AT LAST!!!
G'ulSera on 04 May 2005
hmmzz... sounds like they thought be4 doing this... altough the less dmg towards small ships is pretty strange... if you throw a nuke on an ant it should die :p
hmmzz... sounds like they thought be4 doing this... altough the less dmg towards small ships is pretty strange... if you throw a nuke on an ant it should die :p
Asestorian on 04 May 2005
Actually now that I think about it i'm unsure about how this will effect ships such as the already pretty uber kestral and crow, will their wtfpwnage increase or are you planning to do something about that, what with missiles now being even faster...
Actually now that I think about it i'm unsure about how this will effect ships such as the already pretty uber kestral and crow, will their wtfpwnage increase or are you planning to do something about that, what with missiles now being even faster...
Amos Sommers on 04 May 2005
... great might aswell stop playing eve now ... j/k looks ok, just too bad I'll have a whole crapload of skills to learn :(
... great might aswell stop playing eve now ... j/k looks ok, just too bad I'll have a whole crapload of skills to learn :(
Storm Matrix on 04 May 2005
I am really glad that ravens will once again good in fleet combat... these changes will also make sure you have a balanced fleet...support for support and not 5 ravens to take out the entire support team... I love ravens for pvp and I am glad they will be uber again.
I am really glad that ravens will once again good in fleet combat... these changes will also make sure you have a balanced fleet...support for support and not 5 ravens to take out the entire support team... I love ravens for pvp and I am glad they will be uber again.
Isonkon Serikain on 04 May 2005
I can smell the crow is going to be ridiculously easy to win a fight with... Me weeps for the weeks I spent specializing in blasteranis, I had a thin chance of winning then, but now forget it.
I can smell the crow is going to be ridiculously easy to win a fight with... Me weeps for the weeks I spent specializing in blasteranis, I had a thin chance of winning then, but now forget it.
EMerkki on 04 May 2005
Strange that no one commented about defenders. When do we get something like them against lasers, projectiles and hybrids? Atm missiles/torps etc. are so slow you can wipe most of them out with two cheap rocket launchers (and torps cost a $h*teload of isk when compared to lasers). Anything else than missiles will hit you hard and instantly.
Strange that no one commented about defenders. When do we get something like them against lasers, projectiles and hybrids? Atm missiles/torps etc. are so slow you can wipe most of them out with two cheap rocket launchers (and torps cost a $h*teload of isk when compared to lasers). Anything else than missiles will hit you hard and instantly.
Nitehawk on 05 May 2005
hmmm..sounds like lotta consideration for pvp NO consideration for npc'ng..and wtf not a nerf?? geez...could at least have the ballz to admit its a nerf when it IS a nerf...u think we stooopid??
hmmm..sounds like lotta consideration for pvp NO consideration for npc'ng..and wtf not a nerf?? geez...could at least have the ballz to admit its a nerf when it IS a nerf...u think we stooopid??
Shemaul on 05 May 2005
Is the word "NERF" banned by the devs dictionary? Somethingt that does LESS damage than before is always called a NERF. If Devs things that missiles need a balance, it's OK. But if u wanna balance something you think is too powerful u can only NERF it!! Balance is the conseguence, NERF is the way to reach it. So is a NERF, nothing more, nothing less.
Is the word "NERF" banned by the devs dictionary? Somethingt that does LESS damage than before is always called a NERF. If Devs things that missiles need a balance, it's OK. But if u wanna balance something you think is too powerful u can only NERF it!! Balance is the conseguence, NERF is the way to reach it. So is a NERF, nothing more, nothing less.
Garia666 on 05 May 2005
when does the hurting stop. .
when does the hurting stop. .
B'laze on 05 May 2005
as missiles are gonna be stoped at lot easier now by the assult launcher/defender combo , can we see some sort of deflecter? so its fair ammo wise u could need charges for it like the cap boosters, tho not usin as much space or lasting longer(than current cap batteries)
as missiles are gonna be stoped at lot easier now by the assult launcher/defender combo , can we see some sort of deflecter? so its fair ammo wise u could need charges for it like the cap boosters, tho not usin as much space or lasting longer(than current cap batteries)
MikeDK on 05 May 2005
Got a question about the "size factored damage". I don't understand the rationale behind the idea that a very large missile will do less damage to a small target than a small missile would have. I'm trying but I just can't see the logic in that. If I fire a very large nuclear warhead at a very small target, there's no way it can survive simply because it's smaller. I mean I have no problem with them putting this into effect, I'm just the type of guy who likes things to have at least a faint reflection of actual reality. If the idea is to give smaller ships a better chance against torp and cruise platforms, then would it not be better to introduce a new module or ship bonus called "Missile Target Aliasing" (or something equally creative), which would project a number of false images of itself to incoming missiles and therefor cause the missiles to explode way off the real target (with a percentage likelyhood)? Implemented as ship bonuses this would make a lot of sense, from a "reality" perspective. Give all interceptors and assault frigates some good bonuses and missiles would be a lot less useful against these ship classes, without resorting to some illogical conclusion about large missiles not doing so much damage to smaller targets than larger targets. It's just a suggestion people. Please don't bite my head off.
Got a question about the "size factored damage". I don't understand the rationale behind the idea that a very large missile will do less damage to a small target than a small missile would have. I'm trying but I just can't see the logic in that. If I fire a very large nuclear warhead at a very small target, there's no way it can survive simply because it's smaller. I mean I have no problem with them putting this into effect, I'm just the type of guy who likes things to have at least a faint reflection of actual reality. If the idea is to give smaller ships a better chance against torp and cruise platforms, then would it not be better to introduce a new module or ship bonus called "Missile Target Aliasing" (or something equally creative), which would project a number of false images of itself to incoming missiles and therefor cause the missiles to explode way off the real target (with a percentage likelyhood)? Implemented as ship bonuses this would make a lot of sense, from a "reality" perspective. Give all interceptors and assault frigates some good bonuses and missiles would be a lot less useful against these ship classes, without resorting to some illogical conclusion about large missiles not doing so much damage to smaller targets than larger targets. It's just a suggestion people. Please don't bite my head off.
Lo3d3R on 05 May 2005
*hint* i hope this doesnt mean you need a targetpainter to shoot small ships *hint*
*hint* i hope this doesnt mean you need a targetpainter to shoot small ships *hint*
Xantia Blade on 05 May 2005
Torpedos doing 11 damage on a interceptor, how is that right?
Torpedos doing 11 damage on a interceptor, how is that right?
nikek notlad on 05 May 2005
I have to say that changes 2,3 and 4 are great ideas and will improve the 'reality' of game-play. But change 1 is baffling to me and almost defeats the obeject of the other changes. It also rolls EVE back a few patches when we have frigates kitted out with cruise missiles. That was nerfed to ensure that cheap palyers in cheap ships could not exploit cheap tactics against expensie players in expensive ships. This change nerfs the nerf
I have to say that changes 2,3 and 4 are great ideas and will improve the 'reality' of game-play. But change 1 is baffling to me and almost defeats the obeject of the other changes. It also rolls EVE back a few patches when we have frigates kitted out with cruise missiles. That was nerfed to ensure that cheap palyers in cheap ships could not exploit cheap tactics against expensie players in expensive ships. This change nerfs the nerf
nikek notlad on 05 May 2005
Hmmm... try again I have to say that changes 2,3 and 4 are great ideas and will improve the 'reality' of game-play. But change 1 is baffling to me and almost defeats the obeject of the other changes. It also rolls EVE back a few patches when we had frigates kitted out with cruise missiles. That was nerfed to ensure that cheap palyers in cheap ships could not exploit cheap tactics against expensive players in expensive ships. This change nerfs the nerf
Hmmm... try again I have to say that changes 2,3 and 4 are great ideas and will improve the 'reality' of game-play. But change 1 is baffling to me and almost defeats the obeject of the other changes. It also rolls EVE back a few patches when we had frigates kitted out with cruise missiles. That was nerfed to ensure that cheap palyers in cheap ships could not exploit cheap tactics against expensive players in expensive ships. This change nerfs the nerf
Kel'Thuzar on 05 May 2005
so a-bomb shot at a car only scratches the paint job and maybe dent it?
so a-bomb shot at a car only scratches the paint job and maybe dent it?
Lady Alexandra on 05 May 2005
You could imagine that a big "blast wave" from a big torp just pushes a small ship a bit. While big ships might get damaged by that "wave", the small ships that are made to fly fast with great agility can handle alot of g forces thus handling a "blast wave" better.
You could imagine that a big "blast wave" from a big torp just pushes a small ship a bit. While big ships might get damaged by that "wave", the small ships that are made to fly fast with great agility can handle alot of g forces thus handling a "blast wave" better.
Mabelrode on 05 May 2005
The Caldari crybabies make me sick. "All my missles should hit frigates, and for max dmg, even though other BS turrets can't hit at all. What do you mean I might actually MISS?? WWaaahhh !!"
The Caldari crybabies make me sick. "All my missles should hit frigates, and for max dmg, even though other BS turrets can't hit at all. What do you mean I might actually MISS?? WWaaahhh !!"
Talinis on 05 May 2005
Oh plz, this is a good change at least... Now at least some frigs or cruisers might survive long enough to warp out against a missile totting bs
Oh plz, this is a good change at least... Now at least some frigs or cruisers might survive long enough to warp out against a missile totting bs
Zoon on 05 May 2005
Mabelrode says it all tbh.
Mabelrode says it all tbh.
Ithildin on 05 May 2005
Yes, I support Mabelrodes comment. Also note the amount of people suggesting that missiles were previously really bad at fleet and range and wanted them made faster O_o Great change! Now Caldari get to fit ships for the purpose it is supposed to play, too!
Yes, I support Mabelrodes comment. Also note the amount of people suggesting that missiles were previously really bad at fleet and range and wanted them made faster O_o Great change! Now Caldari get to fit ships for the purpose it is supposed to play, too!
Ralitge boyter on 05 May 2005
So now all we need as Caldari ship lovers is something that can do something else than jam or spew torps. iow a BS or BC size ship that can be used to shoot guns the are cruisers that can do it and firgates but the bigger you get as Caldari the more you have to use torps/cruise. :-( Other than that if this means you will need ten torps to kill a frigate I think we might need a little tweaking. (not completely tru you need about 8 now on SISI to kill a NPC frigate) Other wise ravens will be noob ship target practice. :-(
So now all we need as Caldari ship lovers is something that can do something else than jam or spew torps. iow a BS or BC size ship that can be used to shoot guns the are cruisers that can do it and firgates but the bigger you get as Caldari the more you have to use torps/cruise. :-( Other than that if this means you will need ten torps to kill a frigate I think we might need a little tweaking. (not completely tru you need about 8 now on SISI to kill a NPC frigate) Other wise ravens will be noob ship target practice. :-(
Galmore on 05 May 2005
Quote : I mean I have no problem with them putting this into effect, I'm just the type of guy who likes things to have at least a faint reflection of actual reality. I agree but If the ship is moving fast enuff at the time of the explosion then 'in Theory' it could out run the blast. Now as to me testing this I cant i must wait for the next mirror of the two servers cause i was inactive for a while. (so some one test this for me and tell me) But what if a ship is siting still and is hit by a Torp, a siting target would or should not get a dmg reduction no matter the size .... See the qoute above But then again I think removen the splash dmg was bad way to go ... but to many people wanted to use nukes in town .. oh well all the better for me i guess :)
Quote : I mean I have no problem with them putting this into effect, I'm just the type of guy who likes things to have at least a faint reflection of actual reality. I agree but If the ship is moving fast enuff at the time of the explosion then 'in Theory' it could out run the blast. Now as to me testing this I cant i must wait for the next mirror of the two servers cause i was inactive for a while. (so some one test this for me and tell me) But what if a ship is siting still and is hit by a Torp, a siting target would or should not get a dmg reduction no matter the size .... See the qoute above But then again I think removen the splash dmg was bad way to go ... but to many people wanted to use nukes in town .. oh well all the better for me i guess :)
Grimreaperr on 05 May 2005
Stupid idea! Small ships should be easier to kill not harder. Stop pampering the frogate lobby.
Stupid idea! Small ships should be easier to kill not harder. Stop pampering the frogate lobby.
Grimreaperr on 05 May 2005
Stupid idea! Small ships should be easier to kill not harder. Stop pampering the frigate lobby.
Stupid idea! Small ships should be easier to kill not harder. Stop pampering the frigate lobby.
Torch Toomb on 05 May 2005
i got an idea... how about putting missiles back to pre exodus, seems so much more balanced than it is right now.
i got an idea... how about putting missiles back to pre exodus, seems so much more balanced than it is right now.
BABARR on 05 May 2005
test server : torpeod done 20% of the dmg on a frig...... If you want help the frig for dogfight only done slower cruise and torpeod that all. Or create "anti-stasis" (like warp stab) module!!! And now rocket going to do how much dmg on a BS ?? 450 ?????
test server : torpeod done 20% of the dmg on a frig...... If you want help the frig for dogfight only done slower cruise and torpeod that all. Or create "anti-stasis" (like warp stab) module!!! And now rocket going to do how much dmg on a BS ?? 450 ?????
BABARR N'MATAR on 05 May 2005
Or if the problem is the raven only nerf this ship.
Or if the problem is the raven only nerf this ship.
Cerb on 05 May 2005
how the hell can a missile do less damage on a smaller weaker target, total b*******
how the hell can a missile do less damage on a smaller weaker target, total b*******
OdCuK Hayzo on 05 May 2005
drop a neuclear bomb on a fishin boat, youll find it wont do less dmg.
drop a neuclear bomb on a fishin boat, youll find it wont do less dmg.
Creepalone on 05 May 2005
nice, first the scorpion nerf that it is useless...next raven will become useless ! nice idea i will stop playing caldary !
nice, first the scorpion nerf that it is useless...next raven will become useless ! nice idea i will stop playing caldary !
Spinal on 05 May 2005
BAD MOVE!
BAD MOVE!
CT BadIronTree on 05 May 2005
hahahahahaahhah die caldary DIE mouhaahhahah
hahahahahaahhah die caldary DIE mouhaahhahah
Ceryni on 05 May 2005
they dont look to bad, but why are small ships not getting killed by large weapons?
they dont look to bad, but why are small ships not getting killed by large weapons?
Alroon on 05 May 2005
the way i see it is this. Imagine gameplay wise, the missile exploding generates a certain amount of hit point damage within a certain blast radius. If ur ship is engulfed by, lets say, 75 % of the blast radius, then 75% of the total damage would be dealt on ur ship and the remaining 25 to space dust. I u are driving a frigate, then only a small area of the blast radius affects your ship and the space around you gets cramed big time.... Anyways, that's seems like a way to see it...
the way i see it is this. Imagine gameplay wise, the missile exploding generates a certain amount of hit point damage within a certain blast radius. If ur ship is engulfed by, lets say, 75 % of the blast radius, then 75% of the total damage would be dealt on ur ship and the remaining 25 to space dust. I u are driving a frigate, then only a small area of the blast radius affects your ship and the space around you gets cramed big time.... Anyways, that's seems like a way to see it...
djNME on 05 May 2005
I see some things good about it, simple fact is Caldari has been screwed over so hard.I would be intrested to see how much rockets and such hit for when damaging a BS.LoL mayeb theya re sick of people sellings ravens for 135 mil :P.
I see some things good about it, simple fact is Caldari has been screwed over so hard.I would be intrested to see how much rockets and such hit for when damaging a BS.LoL mayeb theya re sick of people sellings ravens for 135 mil :P.
Sparrowhawk on 05 May 2005
Nice time to own a Megathron BPO
Nice time to own a Megathron BPO
Storm Matrix on 05 May 2005
all you damn mission ppl grow up...because of you my primary combat ship has increased in price by about a million percent...go find another ship and stop crying
all you damn mission ppl grow up...because of you my primary combat ship has increased in price by about a million percent...go find another ship and stop crying
Storm Matrix on 05 May 2005
also all you raven pvpers out there realize this is a good improvement...I am sorry but when I go into combat I want my BS to be able to hit OTHER BATTLESHIPS and not just be assigned to kill the stupid frigs...that what other frigs are for.....THINKG GUYS THINK... Also all you turret boys out there its about time the raven got some love so you guys be quiet also....RAVEN 4TW :)
also all you raven pvpers out there realize this is a good improvement...I am sorry but when I go into combat I want my BS to be able to hit OTHER BATTLESHIPS and not just be assigned to kill the stupid frigs...that what other frigs are for.....THINKG GUYS THINK... Also all you turret boys out there its about time the raven got some love so you guys be quiet also....RAVEN 4TW :)
Raven on 05 May 2005
These changes sound pretty good. Ravens will now be a lot more useful in fleet combat and less UBER when NPC'ing, effectively bringing them on the same level as all the other races. Although the raven noobs are mostly crying atm, they should realise that when the devs introduce those new missile skills, they will pretty much be on the same level as the veteran missile users due to a small number missile skills in existance. Hopefully this will be thoroughly tested and balanced on singularity before it hits TQ.
These changes sound pretty good. Ravens will now be a lot more useful in fleet combat and less UBER when NPC'ing, effectively bringing them on the same level as all the other races. Although the raven noobs are mostly crying atm, they should realise that when the devs introduce those new missile skills, they will pretty much be on the same level as the veteran missile users due to a small number missile skills in existance. Hopefully this will be thoroughly tested and balanced on singularity before it hits TQ.
Roshan longshot on 05 May 2005
Why downgrade the missles at all? Why not add somthing new to defend against them? Its called proggress, you make a good missle I make a good defense...Geeesh. And who the heck cares if the Raven is uber for npc work when its crappy at pvp
Why downgrade the missles at all? Why not add somthing new to defend against them? Its called proggress, you make a good missle I make a good defense...Geeesh. And who the heck cares if the Raven is uber for npc work when its crappy at pvp
John Blackthorn on 05 May 2005
You can't hit frigates now with torps whats the problem? for that matter I almost never hit battleships with torps either.. to long a distance they all just run away before they hit.
You can't hit frigates now with torps whats the problem? for that matter I almost never hit battleships with torps either.. to long a distance they all just run away before they hit.
Azgard on 05 May 2005
that doesnt make since to me,small ships take less damage? spec if it is a direct hit lol
that doesnt make since to me,small ships take less damage? spec if it is a direct hit lol
TheForSakenSoul on 06 May 2005
OMG what the hell is going on with these missiles, this is crap
OMG what the hell is going on with these missiles, this is crap
Storm Matrix on 06 May 2005
::agrees with raven:: omg it is only the raven npc noobs that are crying a river...the hardcore pvper raven lovers should be jumping up and down with a big grin on their faces...thanks TomB for this...keep up the good work
::agrees with raven:: omg it is only the raven npc noobs that are crying a river...the hardcore pvper raven lovers should be jumping up and down with a big grin on their faces...thanks TomB for this...keep up the good work
Amaron Ghant on 06 May 2005
I look forward to the introduction of this with something closely akin to glee. The Forum whinage is likely to be both intense and highly entertaining, and I for one am going to watch it unfold in full. Adapt, overcome or go play Frogger
I look forward to the introduction of this with something closely akin to glee. The Forum whinage is likely to be both intense and highly entertaining, and I for one am going to watch it unfold in full. Adapt, overcome or go play Frogger
Erotic Irony on 06 May 2005
The irony here is the people who make the objections also have the most tenuous grasp of english. Sorry folks but values not equal facts. Go try the changes on chaos before parroting someone else's conjecture.
The irony here is the people who make the objections also have the most tenuous grasp of english. Sorry folks but values not equal facts. Go try the changes on chaos before parroting someone else's conjecture.
Seby on 06 May 2005
I just hope they will be more realistic, i can't see how realistic it will be when a torpedo won't kill a frig ...
I just hope they will be more realistic, i can't see how realistic it will be when a torpedo won't kill a frig ...
Bucks on 06 May 2005
Killing a 100k Moa with 6 siege launchers and torps will take me now like 6 full volleys? Damn, this has to be looked at. I can't load Cruise ML's in Siege launchers anymore.... And 117 damage from a Juggernaut on a guristas target, and 107 from the wrath CM at the same target (cruiser). Guess what.... No Ravens against anything smaller then a ... BS?
Killing a 100k Moa with 6 siege launchers and torps will take me now like 6 full volleys? Damn, this has to be looked at. I can't load Cruise ML's in Siege launchers anymore.... And 117 damage from a Juggernaut on a guristas target, and 107 from the wrath CM at the same target (cruiser). Guess what.... No Ravens against anything smaller then a ... BS?
Creepalone on 06 May 2005
The patch is not bad either, I tested it on sing and it goes in the right direction. But, for me its frustrating, because from this patch on i surely earn less money (300%) with missions. It`ll be hard for me to deal with this new situation. To the people saying raven noobs are whining, I can only say that nobody prevents you from soloing level 4 either. Be sure, playing eve longer than other is the only reason why you got the better skills and earn much more money. This is nothing very special, because its only time waiting and skilling. But a 3 month character soloing level 4...this is something i honor ! Go and get this few skills and try level 4 with it i`m sure most of you well skilled playeres who are shouting loud "raven newbis" will fail.
The patch is not bad either, I tested it on sing and it goes in the right direction. But, for me its frustrating, because from this patch on i surely earn less money (300%) with missions. It`ll be hard for me to deal with this new situation. To the people saying raven noobs are whining, I can only say that nobody prevents you from soloing level 4 either. Be sure, playing eve longer than other is the only reason why you got the better skills and earn much more money. This is nothing very special, because its only time waiting and skilling. But a 3 month character soloing level 4...this is something i honor ! Go and get this few skills and try level 4 with it i`m sure most of you well skilled playeres who are shouting loud "raven newbis" will fail.
Marquain Calleur on 06 May 2005
Would everyone please stop nagging at Caldari users who happen to find this change unhelpful? The fact that PvP gets better doesn't help people who play EVE for the missions. This game is about being fun, and if a change is introduced that makes the game less fun to play for a sizeable group of users, then the rest of you can laugh at their misfortune all you like - they'll be out the door along with their subscription fees. Not out of spite but because we simply lose interest. If that doesn't somehow ring some alarm bells somewhere then the future for EVE isn't very good.
Would everyone please stop nagging at Caldari users who happen to find this change unhelpful? The fact that PvP gets better doesn't help people who play EVE for the missions. This game is about being fun, and if a change is introduced that makes the game less fun to play for a sizeable group of users, then the rest of you can laugh at their misfortune all you like - they'll be out the door along with their subscription fees. Not out of spite but because we simply lose interest. If that doesn't somehow ring some alarm bells somewhere then the future for EVE isn't very good.
Mme boubou on 06 May 2005
A torpedo exploding on a frig envelopes the whole frig in fire and brimstone, causing less damage?....i can see if you are flying at the speed of light to avoid the nuclear/EMP whatever shockwave blast, but sitting still with your engines off = less damage due to smaller signature?...No F'n Way. So the Missile boat without t2 launchers, t2 damage mods, and t2 skills availible, (Unlike the gunners who have all the above availible) also gets the shaft with this 'balancing' to boot! Freakin awesome....
A torpedo exploding on a frig envelopes the whole frig in fire and brimstone, causing less damage?....i can see if you are flying at the speed of light to avoid the nuclear/EMP whatever shockwave blast, but sitting still with your engines off = less damage due to smaller signature?...No F'n Way. So the Missile boat without t2 launchers, t2 damage mods, and t2 skills availible, (Unlike the gunners who have all the above availible) also gets the shaft with this 'balancing' to boot! Freakin awesome....
symbiont on 06 May 2005
well, think that maybe for a change, raven users will go as other race's bs owners do. I mean, it's pretty unfair that some mofo with 90k sp will hit any frig/inti, and I with 800k in gunnery ( example) and tachs I land maybe 1 hit in 20 (not counting the target painters, since those are fairly new). But that thing about big missiles hitting small things for lesser damage ... that is tottaly crap, like, wtf, missiles hit on impact, they don't go off at some range.
well, think that maybe for a change, raven users will go as other race's bs owners do. I mean, it's pretty unfair that some mofo with 90k sp will hit any frig/inti, and I with 800k in gunnery ( example) and tachs I land maybe 1 hit in 20 (not counting the target painters, since those are fairly new). But that thing about big missiles hitting small things for lesser damage ... that is tottaly crap, like, wtf, missiles hit on impact, they don't go off at some range.
symbiont on 06 May 2005
oh, and I forgot, they all hit for *MAX* damage, remember ? if I manage to land a hit with tachs on a frig, I'll do how much damage? lol.
oh, and I forgot, they all hit for *MAX* damage, remember ? if I manage to land a hit with tachs on a frig, I'll do how much damage? lol.
JoCool on 06 May 2005
Ave TomB, great!
Ave TomB, great!
Johnson McCrae on 06 May 2005
Bad bad devs. Sig Radius of mwding ships is NOT being used, or else the frigs would be taking more than 6.9 damage per torp/cruise missile. Devs need more practice NOT nerfing things.
Bad bad devs. Sig Radius of mwding ships is NOT being used, or else the frigs would be taking more than 6.9 damage per torp/cruise missile. Devs need more practice NOT nerfing things.
Kern Walzky on 06 May 2005
I like the "more skills" thing, caldari chars need more skills to pursue... With new patch torps are crap ! short range??? gunnery heavy weapons have long range !!! Damage on impact...why less damage on faster ships? its impact damage !? Does Guns deal less damage on fast moving ships??? NOOT...caldari ships will be to buy all over after this !.... this sucks big time :(
I like the "more skills" thing, caldari chars need more skills to pursue... With new patch torps are crap ! short range??? gunnery heavy weapons have long range !!! Damage on impact...why less damage on faster ships? its impact damage !? Does Guns deal less damage on fast moving ships??? NOOT...caldari ships will be to buy all over after this !.... this sucks big time :(
Heriam on 06 May 2005
Ok i want to say 2 tings. 1. To the people that are whining, My friend has been playing the game for 2 mounths and he can do level 4 agent missions, just because he has level 2 cladari bs and level 1 torps. Thats just stupid. 2. If we have like 5 frigs and 1 raven with target painter they put it on one bs and than the raven shots 6 torps. Do the torps do like 3000damage now?
Ok i want to say 2 tings. 1. To the people that are whining, My friend has been playing the game for 2 mounths and he can do level 4 agent missions, just because he has level 2 cladari bs and level 1 torps. Thats just stupid. 2. If we have like 5 frigs and 1 raven with target painter they put it on one bs and than the raven shots 6 torps. Do the torps do like 3000damage now?
Trevize dk on 06 May 2005
Guys. Think about it. If I hit a guy with a baseball bat, it doesnt matter if he is large or small. He still suffers the full impact. The change is utterly stupid.
Guys. Think about it. If I hit a guy with a baseball bat, it doesnt matter if he is large or small. He still suffers the full impact. The change is utterly stupid.
Jackal79 on 06 May 2005
Overall it sounds it will work... Why not make missiles occasionally miss small targets instead of doing less damage? That would make more sense.
Overall it sounds it will work... Why not make missiles occasionally miss small targets instead of doing less damage? That would make more sense.
Thyro on 06 May 2005
1. Size Factored Damage: Bigger missiles are now doing less damage to smaller targets; the damage is scaled by the targets Signature Radius using a new attribute on the missile called Explosion Radius. The above shows your inability to make proper change! DAMAGE is a CONSTANT and not a VARIABLE (check how to program and you will get the correct definition of CONSTANT) Again DAMAGE = CONSTANT (Null variation independant of the size of the object) In fact 1000hp damage missile - 2000 hp (BS) = 1000 hp on the BS left 1000hp damage missile - 50 hp (frigate) = -950hp damage = vaporized frigate Independant of the speed... even if a not direct hit but inside the radio damage. SO DAMAGE is a CONSTANT and NOT DEPENDENT FROM THE SIZE OF THE OBJECT (or signature whatever)
1. Size Factored Damage: Bigger missiles are now doing less damage to smaller targets; the damage is scaled by the targets Signature Radius using a new attribute on the missile called Explosion Radius. The above shows your inability to make proper change! DAMAGE is a CONSTANT and not a VARIABLE (check how to program and you will get the correct definition of CONSTANT) Again DAMAGE = CONSTANT (Null variation independant of the size of the object) In fact 1000hp damage missile - 2000 hp (BS) = 1000 hp on the BS left 1000hp damage missile - 50 hp (frigate) = -950hp damage = vaporized frigate Independant of the speed... even if a not direct hit but inside the radio damage. SO DAMAGE is a CONSTANT and NOT DEPENDENT FROM THE SIZE OF THE OBJECT (or signature whatever)
Thyro on 06 May 2005
1. Size Factored Damage: Bigger missiles are now doing less damage to smaller targets; the damage is scaled by the targets Signature Radius using a new attribute on the missile called Explosion Radius. What you are saying is something like this: We NUKE a city... All BUILDINGS got destroyed on the process All PEOPLE die Some PETS survive (even when they were crossing streets or on the city parks) All ANTS (that were on the impact zone) survice without like something never happened. Justification for ANTs to survive without a casuality... coz they are small... How stupid is that relation DAMAGE vs SIZE in fact there is not relation DAMAGE vs SIZE DAMAGE = CONSTANT independent of the SIZE
1. Size Factored Damage: Bigger missiles are now doing less damage to smaller targets; the damage is scaled by the targets Signature Radius using a new attribute on the missile called Explosion Radius. What you are saying is something like this: We NUKE a city... All BUILDINGS got destroyed on the process All PEOPLE die Some PETS survive (even when they were crossing streets or on the city parks) All ANTS (that were on the impact zone) survice without like something never happened. Justification for ANTs to survive without a casuality... coz they are small... How stupid is that relation DAMAGE vs SIZE in fact there is not relation DAMAGE vs SIZE DAMAGE = CONSTANT independent of the SIZE
Mme boubou on 06 May 2005
Might as well throw the Smartbombs into the mix to act the same way. Is that going to happen?
Might as well throw the Smartbombs into the mix to act the same way. Is that going to happen?
Joerd Toastius on 06 May 2005
Guys, common sense please. Missile blast wave hits a 2km * 100m ship. Total exposed to the blast: 200,000m^2. The same blast wave hits a 200m*10m ship. Total area exposed to the blast: 2,000m^2. On the assumption that missiles put out a uniform blast wave and ships are hit at the same radius (otherwise modelling is going to be a total PITA), the larger ship is exposed to 100 times more energy.
Guys, common sense please. Missile blast wave hits a 2km * 100m ship. Total exposed to the blast: 200,000m^2. The same blast wave hits a 200m*10m ship. Total area exposed to the blast: 2,000m^2. On the assumption that missiles put out a uniform blast wave and ships are hit at the same radius (otherwise modelling is going to be a total PITA), the larger ship is exposed to 100 times more energy.
eztrader on 06 May 2005
Only problem I have is with the cruise missiles... They keep stuttering or jumping. The torps and the light's don't do this, so why the cruise? Other than that, us missile jockies are going to have to learn to use new ships and skills. The scorp is going to be served up on a lot of platters very soon...
Only problem I have is with the cruise missiles... They keep stuttering or jumping. The torps and the light's don't do this, so why the cruise? Other than that, us missile jockies are going to have to learn to use new ships and skills. The scorp is going to be served up on a lot of platters very soon...
Decom on 06 May 2005
Well there are many hypothetical and possible explanations to cargo containers being able to hold more than they take up. One being that space is more efficiently used and or the target item is shrunk or scaled down when packed in it; and instead of just making another system of calculations you simply increase the amount they can hold. As for missiles doing less damage to smaller targets this might also *possibly* make sense is the target missile relies on the signature radius of the ship to explode, thus the larger the signature radius the more accurately they detonate in terms of distance from the target. Not to mention the constant velocity of a small ship moving away from the blast radius as it explodes.
Well there are many hypothetical and possible explanations to cargo containers being able to hold more than they take up. One being that space is more efficiently used and or the target item is shrunk or scaled down when packed in it; and instead of just making another system of calculations you simply increase the amount they can hold. As for missiles doing less damage to smaller targets this might also *possibly* make sense is the target missile relies on the signature radius of the ship to explode, thus the larger the signature radius the more accurately they detonate in terms of distance from the target. Not to mention the constant velocity of a small ship moving away from the blast radius as it explodes.
Ordais on 06 May 2005
hmmmm...testet lvl2 missions in a caracal on the testserver....guys...its a joke, right? a 25k frig tanked my heavy missile dmg?!...after 150 missiles i run out of them and the frig was at half armor dmg. now....may the changes where needed for pvp, cruise/torps and raven....but you nerved the whole caldari race to....stoneage. how do you suppose noobs should start as caldari?.... also...with this speeds...missiles are direct dmg now (no use for defenders...)...why not remove them completle and give caldari race full hybrid turret bonus/slots.... easy, no?
hmmmm...testet lvl2 missions in a caracal on the testserver....guys...its a joke, right? a 25k frig tanked my heavy missile dmg?!...after 150 missiles i run out of them and the frig was at half armor dmg. now....may the changes where needed for pvp, cruise/torps and raven....but you nerved the whole caldari race to....stoneage. how do you suppose noobs should start as caldari?.... also...with this speeds...missiles are direct dmg now (no use for defenders...)...why not remove them completle and give caldari race full hybrid turret bonus/slots.... easy, no?
Spikester on 06 May 2005
Yet another quality patch from ccp i changed from a mega to a raven in turet nerfs now missiles, well this isnt fun any more cant shoot this cant shoot that its a game supposed to be fun and a lot of us like to play and do missions alone not in groups anyway im sure all the negative posts will fall on def ears so ill try the nerf if i dont like it im off to find another game to play and pay for a game i like and enjoy.
Yet another quality patch from ccp i changed from a mega to a raven in turet nerfs now missiles, well this isnt fun any more cant shoot this cant shoot that its a game supposed to be fun and a lot of us like to play and do missions alone not in groups anyway im sure all the negative posts will fall on def ears so ill try the nerf if i dont like it im off to find another game to play and pay for a game i like and enjoy.
Alphawolf on 06 May 2005
"Bigger missiles are now doing less damage to smaller targets; the damage is scaled by the targets Signature Radius using a new attribute on the missile called Explosion Radius" smoke some bad ganja lately ? dunno where you come from but if a big missile it something small it would do more damage not less.... so vary retarded but not suprised ccp came up with it lol
"Bigger missiles are now doing less damage to smaller targets; the damage is scaled by the targets Signature Radius using a new attribute on the missile called Explosion Radius" smoke some bad ganja lately ? dunno where you come from but if a big missile it something small it would do more damage not less.... so vary retarded but not suprised ccp came up with it lol
Anne Arkie on 06 May 2005
would be nice if missiles couldnt fly around asteroids and stuff, so smaller ships could hide behind a roid and stay there forever while a big ship is firing missiles at you and you can just point and laugh without missiles going aorund the asteroid......just a thought
would be nice if missiles couldnt fly around asteroids and stuff, so smaller ships could hide behind a roid and stay there forever while a big ship is firing missiles at you and you can just point and laugh without missiles going aorund the asteroid......just a thought
rassta on 06 May 2005
so now a tech 2 frig can tank a bs thats smart i thoght this game was a solo or group game now you cant solo thats fun you mad the game a group game now what about the people that dont want to group and just play to have fun now what thay can only mine and not do missions solo
so now a tech 2 frig can tank a bs thats smart i thoght this game was a solo or group game now you cant solo thats fun you mad the game a group game now what about the people that dont want to group and just play to have fun now what thay can only mine and not do missions solo
Makotar on 07 May 2005
Tomb, are the devs playing strict gallente now? lol. Seriously, I see good and bad in this, but I am curious, why couldn't you use a chance to miss like proj., hybrids, and lasers? The small damage to small target is iffy. I will play and see how it goes, but CCP will reimburse for the 200 missles to kill a frig standing still, right? Keep working on it, guys. Thank you for all you are doing, though.
Tomb, are the devs playing strict gallente now? lol. Seriously, I see good and bad in this, but I am curious, why couldn't you use a chance to miss like proj., hybrids, and lasers? The small damage to small target is iffy. I will play and see how it goes, but CCP will reimburse for the 200 missles to kill a frig standing still, right? Keep working on it, guys. Thank you for all you are doing, though.
Falzone on 07 May 2005
this size /damage change is the dumbest thing ever tomb. if i saw you in rl sometime i would just stand there and laugh and make fun of you. your saying that a torpedo hits and aircraft carrier that aircraft carrier sinks but when that same torpedo hits a 5 foot rowboat it doesn't sink? wtf its sad i been playing eve since day 1 and i'll probably keep playing after this dumb change of yours cause i've invested too much time in this game but some of the stuff you come up with sickens me.
this size /damage change is the dumbest thing ever tomb. if i saw you in rl sometime i would just stand there and laugh and make fun of you. your saying that a torpedo hits and aircraft carrier that aircraft carrier sinks but when that same torpedo hits a 5 foot rowboat it doesn't sink? wtf its sad i been playing eve since day 1 and i'll probably keep playing after this dumb change of yours cause i've invested too much time in this game but some of the stuff you come up with sickens me.
sqat on 07 May 2005
Crap, pvpèrs cry out in joy, and those NOT interested in PVP, but say missions, are all welcome to go find another game to play ? what is this? So the raven is the uber mission ship !! SO what, go read caldari bs, and you can fly it as well,Its ok with a neerf if they introduce skills that can counter the neerf, then it just take longer to be able to do missions alone, BUT !! these skills seems to be missing
Crap, pvpèrs cry out in joy, and those NOT interested in PVP, but say missions, are all welcome to go find another game to play ? what is this? So the raven is the uber mission ship !! SO what, go read caldari bs, and you can fly it as well,Its ok with a neerf if they introduce skills that can counter the neerf, then it just take longer to be able to do missions alone, BUT !! these skills seems to be missing
Anderson on 07 May 2005
Do more BUG fixing instead of comming up with new stuff every week.
Do more BUG fixing instead of comming up with new stuff every week.
sqat on 07 May 2005
BY the way. 4 month old players should NOT be able to fly lvl4 on theire own, i agree on that. But if skilled players cant do the missions suited for theire experience, what are they gonna do ? As it is NOW, lvl4 missions gives the outcome and the action, suited for long time playing characters, and we could easy read up on the skills needed if they were to neerf it for the less skilled
BY the way. 4 month old players should NOT be able to fly lvl4 on theire own, i agree on that. But if skilled players cant do the missions suited for theire experience, what are they gonna do ? As it is NOW, lvl4 missions gives the outcome and the action, suited for long time playing characters, and we could easy read up on the skills needed if they were to neerf it for the less skilled
Fi T'Zeh on 07 May 2005
there is a god. His name is TomB
there is a god. His name is TomB
Drakos Vala on 07 May 2005
grrrr nurf the missiles why dont you duz this mean caldari are useless now as they are the missile boats. ooh i do like to mine i guess ill have to wait a few months to get the skills up so i can kill a frigate.
grrrr nurf the missiles why dont you duz this mean caldari are useless now as they are the missile boats. ooh i do like to mine i guess ill have to wait a few months to get the skills up so i can kill a frigate.
Dalexia Vankraft on 07 May 2005
hold on.....shouldnt big missiles kill small things, tomahawk missile hits mini, mini goes splat. why dont you come up with missile defences like chaff or a heat discharger. dont nurf the damn missiles. hmmm i here other online games calling me.
hold on.....shouldnt big missiles kill small things, tomahawk missile hits mini, mini goes splat. why dont you come up with missile defences like chaff or a heat discharger. dont nurf the damn missiles. hmmm i here other online games calling me.
Chinuk valcrov on 07 May 2005
excellent, shall i start a new charachtor as now the calidari are jus obsolete faster missiles are good only if they do the damage required. Mr devoloper person plz dont do this the calidari are a waring race, people will lose out if this comes into play.
excellent, shall i start a new charachtor as now the calidari are jus obsolete faster missiles are good only if they do the damage required. Mr devoloper person plz dont do this the calidari are a waring race, people will lose out if this comes into play.
Naliki vanta on 07 May 2005
this really hurts..... boo hoo
this really hurts..... boo hoo
Whirley on 07 May 2005
I think that the changings are not so bad as it seems to be on the first sight. But I think that if you want to increase the survivety chances of smaller ships it is the wrong way that rockets will make less damage. I think it is better to increase the defense ability for smaller ships. Point of Defence weapons, more Resistence oder hor HP on Shild/Armor. Who about Light/Heavy Missles? How much damage will they deal on smaller Ships? Will the NPC´s which used the Cruise/Torp as well get the same changings? Perhaps ist is a good Idea to post the new Skills for Launcher Operations so that everyone can see the effects of them and many of questions will be aswere on this way.
I think that the changings are not so bad as it seems to be on the first sight. But I think that if you want to increase the survivety chances of smaller ships it is the wrong way that rockets will make less damage. I think it is better to increase the defense ability for smaller ships. Point of Defence weapons, more Resistence oder hor HP on Shild/Armor. Who about Light/Heavy Missles? How much damage will they deal on smaller Ships? Will the NPC´s which used the Cruise/Torp as well get the same changings? Perhaps ist is a good Idea to post the new Skills for Launcher Operations so that everyone can see the effects of them and many of questions will be aswere on this way.
Thyro on 07 May 2005
Another quality patch-nerf inviting to stop playing EVE and go definetly to WOW or other game! DAMAGE has no relation to SIZE if fact SMALL SIZE = MORE DAMAGE (THIS IS COMMON SENSE... Exception in ICELAND... specially in CCP)!
Another quality patch-nerf inviting to stop playing EVE and go definetly to WOW or other game! DAMAGE has no relation to SIZE if fact SMALL SIZE = MORE DAMAGE (THIS IS COMMON SENSE... Exception in ICELAND... specially in CCP)!
sqat on 07 May 2005
What kinda damage to what ships, the different missiles do, is all a bit indifferent to me, AS LONG AS ITS BALANCHED, and with the neerf its not, lol, if a frigate can tank 150 heavy missiles, then some thing is off balance.
What kinda damage to what ships, the different missiles do, is all a bit indifferent to me, AS LONG AS ITS BALANCHED, and with the neerf its not, lol, if a frigate can tank 150 heavy missiles, then some thing is off balance.
Cetshwayo on 07 May 2005
ITS...A...GAME! STOP WITH THE USELESS REAL LIFE COMPARISOMS. WE ARE HAVING SPACE COMBAT HERE! IS THAT IN REAL LIFE? NO!! Stop whining ffs. Drop a nuke anywhere and you probably will still see ants crawling all over the place. Cockroaches too perhaps. Fact is Ravens were THE choice for missions simply because missiles hit everything for full damage and you can choose what damage. It's about time they were brought back in line with the other ships. However the 50km orbit crow will need to be looked at.
ITS...A...GAME! STOP WITH THE USELESS REAL LIFE COMPARISOMS. WE ARE HAVING SPACE COMBAT HERE! IS THAT IN REAL LIFE? NO!! Stop whining ffs. Drop a nuke anywhere and you probably will still see ants crawling all over the place. Cockroaches too perhaps. Fact is Ravens were THE choice for missions simply because missiles hit everything for full damage and you can choose what damage. It's about time they were brought back in line with the other ships. However the 50km orbit crow will need to be looked at.
Zakharov on 07 May 2005
Just to point out to you guys , i think when they say 'small target = less damage' its to show that its harder to target small ships ... your torp is not infact hitting and exploding ... its goign off depth charge style a fair way fof becuase it can't predict where the ship will be . All the comparisons with nukes is stupid ... imagine trying to hit one specific city when you don't know where its going to be ... if you can hit it , then you will vape it ... if no the damage done is going to be tiny if any
Just to point out to you guys , i think when they say 'small target = less damage' its to show that its harder to target small ships ... your torp is not infact hitting and exploding ... its goign off depth charge style a fair way fof becuase it can't predict where the ship will be . All the comparisons with nukes is stupid ... imagine trying to hit one specific city when you don't know where its going to be ... if you can hit it , then you will vape it ... if no the damage done is going to be tiny if any
Stormcrow on 07 May 2005
Here is my opinion on the subject being completely un-bias based on the fact that I can effectively fly missile launching and turret wielding ships and favor neither one more than the other. In a military operation if a B-2 bomber is hit with a Phoenix AIM-54A missile then that bomber will go down regardless of where it is hit. Now take an F-14 Tomcat, hit it with the same missile, and it too will go down. What? The F-14 is allot smaller than the B-2.. The fact of the matter is that smaller ships will take the same amount of damage as BIG ship will. Frigates and Interceptors are ships that are designed to be fast and hard to hit and track. But if it is hit dead on by a large weapon it would be torn to threads regardless of how fast it was moving or how small the signature radius was. If you want to make smaller ships harder to hit then make a mod that u can run that will drop small flares behind your ship to attract the missile off into a different direction. Or make it so it will take your evasive maneuvering skill into effect and you can dodge them all together. But to say that a small ship with paper thin armor and shields can take a direct hit from a large missile without taking much damage is just insanely moronic.
Here is my opinion on the subject being completely un-bias based on the fact that I can effectively fly missile launching and turret wielding ships and favor neither one more than the other. In a military operation if a B-2 bomber is hit with a Phoenix AIM-54A missile then that bomber will go down regardless of where it is hit. Now take an F-14 Tomcat, hit it with the same missile, and it too will go down. What? The F-14 is allot smaller than the B-2.. The fact of the matter is that smaller ships will take the same amount of damage as BIG ship will. Frigates and Interceptors are ships that are designed to be fast and hard to hit and track. But if it is hit dead on by a large weapon it would be torn to threads regardless of how fast it was moving or how small the signature radius was. If you want to make smaller ships harder to hit then make a mod that u can run that will drop small flares behind your ship to attract the missile off into a different direction. Or make it so it will take your evasive maneuvering skill into effect and you can dodge them all together. But to say that a small ship with paper thin armor and shields can take a direct hit from a large missile without taking much damage is just insanely moronic.
Stormcrow on 07 May 2005
Quote:Just to point out to you guys , i think when they say 'small target = less damage' its to show that its harder to target small ships ... your torp is not infact hitting and exploding ... its goign off depth charge style a fair way fof becuase it can't predict where the ship will be . Missiles explode on impact. Have you noticed that when you pop a rat the remaining missles just fly off into the distance? what your talking about is out running which is completly diffrent than exploding on contact.
Quote:Just to point out to you guys , i think when they say 'small target = less damage' its to show that its harder to target small ships ... your torp is not infact hitting and exploding ... its goign off depth charge style a fair way fof becuase it can't predict where the ship will be . Missiles explode on impact. Have you noticed that when you pop a rat the remaining missles just fly off into the distance? what your talking about is out running which is completly diffrent than exploding on contact.
Orion Candor on 07 May 2005
You guys ARE Kidding, Right!?! I mean, I was getting Bored at WoW and came back to this... Doh! Realism... I was already taking flak for Killing Elites from my Battleship... (Morons must think that Battleships can ONLY Mount Large Weapons ... SURPRISE!!!) (Elite Builders, I'm currently Taking Donations for Small and Medium Hybid Ammo LOL) I can Understand Missing with a Slow Turret... but Come on... My (Not-so-)Smartbombs are Doing more damage than my Torps. I guess I'll go create a Horde Toon in Wow, try that for a Couple Months and come back and see what comes of this...
You guys ARE Kidding, Right!?! I mean, I was getting Bored at WoW and came back to this... Doh! Realism... I was already taking flak for Killing Elites from my Battleship... (Morons must think that Battleships can ONLY Mount Large Weapons ... SURPRISE!!!) (Elite Builders, I'm currently Taking Donations for Small and Medium Hybid Ammo LOL) I can Understand Missing with a Slow Turret... but Come on... My (Not-so-)Smartbombs are Doing more damage than my Torps. I guess I'll go create a Horde Toon in Wow, try that for a Couple Months and come back and see what comes of this...
Accurax on 08 May 2005
crap
crap
Lest on 08 May 2005
NO COMMENT on #1 But I like the idea's of 2,3 and 4. I'm not going to even get started on #1 Mind Bogling :)
NO COMMENT on #1 But I like the idea's of 2,3 and 4. I'm not going to even get started on #1 Mind Bogling :)
Dragothmar on 08 May 2005
lol - at last my 6 assault launcher Ferox w a massive armour tank comes of age.
lol - at last my 6 assault launcher Ferox w a massive armour tank comes of age.
Dragothmar on 08 May 2005
Oh BTW - WTS Raven and 2 sets of Megapulse IIs Pls Convo. WTB n00b frigate w civilian stuff as it's the only stuff CCP doesn't nerf. lol.
Oh BTW - WTS Raven and 2 sets of Megapulse IIs Pls Convo. WTB n00b frigate w civilian stuff as it's the only stuff CCP doesn't nerf. lol.
kRaZyBrIt on 08 May 2005
This is total B*******, I cant wait for ELITE online and when that happens you've lost a subscription, I wont be the only one either, nerfing is gettin out of hand and is ruining the game.
This is total B*******, I cant wait for ELITE online and when that happens you've lost a subscription, I wont be the only one either, nerfing is gettin out of hand and is ruining the game.
Jenjuan on 08 May 2005
God you guys are such babies. This is VERY good and I'll explain why. #1. If you make it so that new players don't even have a chance in the game, we would never get new blood, hence BIG Battship Class missiles doing less damage to smaller targets = Good, since you can recruit Newbs to your corp and they can get into PVP right away instead of being bored into dropping out. #2. Why should CCP make it so that older players that have been around for a while, are able to become uber at EVERYTHING from Missiles to Guns to Refining. New skills need to be injected into the system so that players can SPECIALIZE. The more specialization that happens, the more the need arises to work together. The more that people work together, the more the Membership grows, the more the membership grows.. .... I think you get the point. Only gripe that I have is FIX CORP MANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
God you guys are such babies. This is VERY good and I'll explain why. #1. If you make it so that new players don't even have a chance in the game, we would never get new blood, hence BIG Battship Class missiles doing less damage to smaller targets = Good, since you can recruit Newbs to your corp and they can get into PVP right away instead of being bored into dropping out. #2. Why should CCP make it so that older players that have been around for a while, are able to become uber at EVERYTHING from Missiles to Guns to Refining. New skills need to be injected into the system so that players can SPECIALIZE. The more specialization that happens, the more the need arises to work together. The more that people work together, the more the Membership grows, the more the membership grows.. .... I think you get the point. Only gripe that I have is FIX CORP MANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joerd Toastius on 08 May 2005
I know people are clearly just bitching without reading the comments or indeed thinking at all and so this is going to fall on deaf ears, but it'd be nice if everyone saying "OMG U HIT A ROWING BOAT WITH A NUKE IT DIES", consider this: ***SMALLER SHIPS HAVE FEWER HITPOINTS*** Aircraft carrier hitpoints: 50,000 Rowing boat hitpoints: 5 A 500,000 hitpoint-damage nuke only needs to do 0.00001% damage to kill said rowing boat.
I know people are clearly just bitching without reading the comments or indeed thinking at all and so this is going to fall on deaf ears, but it'd be nice if everyone saying "OMG U HIT A ROWING BOAT WITH A NUKE IT DIES", consider this: ***SMALLER SHIPS HAVE FEWER HITPOINTS*** Aircraft carrier hitpoints: 50,000 Rowing boat hitpoints: 5 A 500,000 hitpoint-damage nuke only needs to do 0.00001% damage to kill said rowing boat.
Sohcahtoa on 08 May 2005
that's what i was about to say :) Small things take less damage from explosions but they have fewer "hitpoint" that's all. The problem is not that they'll take less damage, the pb is how much will they take less damage. BTW all i'm-used-to-destroy-everything-with-missile will have to do as all other players, try to find a good fit and find good tactics. If you don't understand try gallente ships with hybrids.
that's what i was about to say :) Small things take less damage from explosions but they have fewer "hitpoint" that's all. The problem is not that they'll take less damage, the pb is how much will they take less damage. BTW all i'm-used-to-destroy-everything-with-missile will have to do as all other players, try to find a good fit and find good tactics. If you don't understand try gallente ships with hybrids.
Seramis on 09 May 2005
How unrealistic. Hit a tank with a missile and the tank is killed, but hit a car with the same missile and the car only needs a new coating. If that's the way CCP goes i will look for another game.
How unrealistic. Hit a tank with a missile and the tank is killed, but hit a car with the same missile and the car only needs a new coating. If that's the way CCP goes i will look for another game.
Time Killer on 09 May 2005
Err... much faster missiles? Greater ROF? Doesn't that make them more like big projectile weapons? I know it's too complicated to try and have a missile agility thing so small ships can dodge them better (I always reckoned there's not way in HELL a torp can match the flight patterns of an interceptor if it weaves and dodges) so sig-radius is a kind of working bodge job. But I'm really not sure about the rest.
Err... much faster missiles? Greater ROF? Doesn't that make them more like big projectile weapons? I know it's too complicated to try and have a missile agility thing so small ships can dodge them better (I always reckoned there's not way in HELL a torp can match the flight patterns of an interceptor if it weaves and dodges) so sig-radius is a kind of working bodge job. But I'm really not sure about the rest.
Prakhgoth on 09 May 2005
Sounds good :)
Sounds good :)
Atamos on 09 May 2005
I don't like the sounds of this missles doing less damage it sounds like this is a waste of time playing the game i might as well not play the game!!!! what is the point anyway. I play this game to have fun not to have a boring game that is going to get at this rate!!
I don't like the sounds of this missles doing less damage it sounds like this is a waste of time playing the game i might as well not play the game!!!! what is the point anyway. I play this game to have fun not to have a boring game that is going to get at this rate!!
Zoon on 09 May 2005
A few points. 1. Does no-one EVER read the part of the devblog which says "here's a forum post for you to put your suggestions of changes in"?? 2. Eve was always supposed to be a PvP game at its core. 3. "OMG nerf APOC of doom". "OMG nerf Gankeddon". "OMG nerf Raven". Its the same story each time. A ship is used in a manner which someone doesn't like so they moan and moan and moan. Then devs release balancing which was always going to come, and bring it back in line with other ships. 2 month old players in Ravens with level 1 torps skill doing level 4 missions is NOT what was originally intended. And is now what will not be happening further. I trained a crap load of skills for my Minmatar ships to be effective, so there's no reason you can't train for your Raven to be. 4. Level 4 missions were supposed to be so incredibly difficult to solo that you needed a party of 2 to 3 people to complete them. Deal with it and stop taking it personally, its a computer game.
A few points. 1. Does no-one EVER read the part of the devblog which says "here's a forum post for you to put your suggestions of changes in"?? 2. Eve was always supposed to be a PvP game at its core. 3. "OMG nerf APOC of doom". "OMG nerf Gankeddon". "OMG nerf Raven". Its the same story each time. A ship is used in a manner which someone doesn't like so they moan and moan and moan. Then devs release balancing which was always going to come, and bring it back in line with other ships. 2 month old players in Ravens with level 1 torps skill doing level 4 missions is NOT what was originally intended. And is now what will not be happening further. I trained a crap load of skills for my Minmatar ships to be effective, so there's no reason you can't train for your Raven to be. 4. Level 4 missions were supposed to be so incredibly difficult to solo that you needed a party of 2 to 3 people to complete them. Deal with it and stop taking it personally, its a computer game.
Seramis on 09 May 2005
@Zoon: to your #4: If level 4 are planned for groups why only one player gets the reward (LP, standing, mission reward)? I would suggest to split the missile types to short range and long range like turrets. Make the torpedo a short range weapon (max. range 30 - 35km), the cruise missile a long range (130 - 150km). Just my 2 cent.
@Zoon: to your #4: If level 4 are planned for groups why only one player gets the reward (LP, standing, mission reward)? I would suggest to split the missile types to short range and long range like turrets. Make the torpedo a short range weapon (max. range 30 - 35km), the cruise missile a long range (130 - 150km). Just my 2 cent.
Creepalone on 09 May 2005
What a trash talking manner, to bring Raven to a nerf: It is not possible to solo every level 4 mission with battleship 2 and torpedo 1...everyone telling this is lying. So before you post such a shit try it and dont believe everything someone tells. Even with a 1,5 billion raven and all engeneering skills level 4, battleship 4 and torp 4, it is not possible to solo all missions. You surely have to warp out or loose your ship. I`m sure lots of people are talking shit and do mission in a group or they don`t accept all missions, to show how cool they are. I know it because i am doing level 4 with some of the best level 4 players and there is noone who solos all missions without warping out or risking to loose raven. In a CN Raven and high skills it is possible to solo all level, but dont believe the mess some people talk about their marvellous gameplay.
What a trash talking manner, to bring Raven to a nerf: It is not possible to solo every level 4 mission with battleship 2 and torpedo 1...everyone telling this is lying. So before you post such a shit try it and dont believe everything someone tells. Even with a 1,5 billion raven and all engeneering skills level 4, battleship 4 and torp 4, it is not possible to solo all missions. You surely have to warp out or loose your ship. I`m sure lots of people are talking shit and do mission in a group or they don`t accept all missions, to show how cool they are. I know it because i am doing level 4 with some of the best level 4 players and there is noone who solos all missions without warping out or risking to loose raven. In a CN Raven and high skills it is possible to solo all level, but dont believe the mess some people talk about their marvellous gameplay.
Volkon on 09 May 2005
i do have to say i dnt really agree with the fact of torps doing less damage on a smaller ship....i think its silly and highly unrealistic, fairplay to the other skills though, i could do with my torps flying faster lol...
i do have to say i dnt really agree with the fact of torps doing less damage on a smaller ship....i think its silly and highly unrealistic, fairplay to the other skills though, i could do with my torps flying faster lol...
Seramis on 09 May 2005
@Creepalone: I do all Level 4 Missions alone in a Raven, but not with BS skill at Level 2 and Torpedo at Leve 1. I'm at 16Mil SP. Maybe there are Missions i don't get from my Caldari Agent, but all Missions he offer me i do, and i do it alone. Yes, it is absolutely unrealistic that torps do less damage to smaller ships. I think it is possible to do Level 4 also in other BS than Raven, against the interceptors every Tier 2 BS can fit Siege Launcher and so use torpedos against interceptors.
@Creepalone: I do all Level 4 Missions alone in a Raven, but not with BS skill at Level 2 and Torpedo at Leve 1. I'm at 16Mil SP. Maybe there are Missions i don't get from my Caldari Agent, but all Missions he offer me i do, and i do it alone. Yes, it is absolutely unrealistic that torps do less damage to smaller ships. I think it is possible to do Level 4 also in other BS than Raven, against the interceptors every Tier 2 BS can fit Siege Launcher and so use torpedos against interceptors.
Asmodeos on 09 May 2005
it's simple in eve a missile never hits, it blasts at a proximitylevel so blast never is full impact -> faster ship fly's away from blast -> less damage. plain simple :)
it's simple in eve a missile never hits, it blasts at a proximitylevel so blast never is full impact -> faster ship fly's away from blast -> less damage. plain simple :)
Creepalone on 09 May 2005
@Seramis: I`m sure you can do it in this way, maybe with a well fitted raven. There were many people saying you only need a raven and no skills and solo all level 4. This is completely untrue in my opion ! Yes, raven is good for level 4, but why not...it is the biggest caldarian ship and you need many skills and money to fit it well. I really do not understand the problem, everyone is free skilling raven and doing missions with it. Sure, allies have a great lobby and talking to ccp "why is it possible that we are an ally in 0.0 and don`t earn much more money than mission runners". So if you nerf raven (sry 150 torps for a 30k frigate on singularity is a nerf) you stop the only chance in >0.4 to get much money. This is exactly what all the allies and their great lobby wants.
@Seramis: I`m sure you can do it in this way, maybe with a well fitted raven. There were many people saying you only need a raven and no skills and solo all level 4. This is completely untrue in my opion ! Yes, raven is good for level 4, but why not...it is the biggest caldarian ship and you need many skills and money to fit it well. I really do not understand the problem, everyone is free skilling raven and doing missions with it. Sure, allies have a great lobby and talking to ccp "why is it possible that we are an ally in 0.0 and don`t earn much more money than mission runners". So if you nerf raven (sry 150 torps for a 30k frigate on singularity is a nerf) you stop the only chance in >0.4 to get much money. This is exactly what all the allies and their great lobby wants.
Kidddy on 09 May 2005
looks like i wont be buying a concord t-shirt after all, - deafmute agress (he has brains)
looks like i wont be buying a concord t-shirt after all, - deafmute agress (he has brains)
Seramis on 09 May 2005
@Asmodeos: where did u get your wisdom? do u know what kinetic damage is? it's damage u take from kinetic energy, so it's damage u get from a direct hit.
@Asmodeos: where did u get your wisdom? do u know what kinetic damage is? it's damage u take from kinetic energy, so it's damage u get from a direct hit.
Seramis on 09 May 2005
@Creepalone: i totally agree with u. the missile a nerf is totally unlogically and it is simply crap.
@Creepalone: i totally agree with u. the missile a nerf is totally unlogically and it is simply crap.
ALTNAME on 09 May 2005
The devs holding this blog have not responded at all. All of these changes are meant to severly nerf caldari, particularly those that dare to solo. A complete inability to destroy an interceptor without severly gimping ons setup, while the damage modded, instant strike sniperthrons completely obliterate the pathetic dps of the Raven. Sigh. ECM was a sever nerf of the scorpion and now the raven. LMAO. Heavy missiles doing 19 damage to frigates! go fock yourselves. Get back into your 3 cruise cloaked frigates, and dance around the most awesome battleship in the game, while you out damage it, because missiles shouldnt hurt you.
The devs holding this blog have not responded at all. All of these changes are meant to severly nerf caldari, particularly those that dare to solo. A complete inability to destroy an interceptor without severly gimping ons setup, while the damage modded, instant strike sniperthrons completely obliterate the pathetic dps of the Raven. Sigh. ECM was a sever nerf of the scorpion and now the raven. LMAO. Heavy missiles doing 19 damage to frigates! go fock yourselves. Get back into your 3 cruise cloaked frigates, and dance around the most awesome battleship in the game, while you out damage it, because missiles shouldnt hurt you.
ALTNAME on 09 May 2005
Max Heavy Missile Range 38KM So I have to be within the OPTIMAL range of Lasers ona battleship rat to BEGIN hitting him. Nice.
Max Heavy Missile Range 38KM So I have to be within the OPTIMAL range of Lasers ona battleship rat to BEGIN hitting him. Nice.
Messerschmitt facility on 09 May 2005
Evrything that is pissing off mission runners is perfect for me and im very happy
Evrything that is pissing off mission runners is perfect for me and im very happy
Seramis on 09 May 2005
Every Turret make more dps than an equivalent Missile. That was never mentioned. The only thing of criticism is that Missiles alsways hit (if target is in range and not faster than the Missile) and so interceptors die fast against a missile boat.
Every Turret make more dps than an equivalent Missile. That was never mentioned. The only thing of criticism is that Missiles alsways hit (if target is in range and not faster than the Missile) and so interceptors die fast against a missile boat.
ALTNAME on 09 May 2005
Torpedoes now go 40km too lmao
Torpedoes now go 40km too lmao
bigmuff mcgraw on 09 May 2005
just a few points that need scrapped/rethinked/noted ...drop the sig radius damage doofie cos it makes no sense at all, stop nerfing things in game that dont need to be nerfed, if people dont like it then go play pacman and stop yer bitching. introducing new skills for missiles to bring them in line with the other gunnery skill training times is fine, but the time invested training these new skills leave missile spammers at a distinct disadvantage in lots of way i.e ship setups, extreme cargo space now required, damage inflicted to targets, raven pilots time spent training for months working on relevant raven skills so they dont have to warp out every 5 minutes like a noob doing level 4's the list goes on and on. if ccp doesnt like to see people doing well and earning good money soloing missions just take the missile boats out of the game altogether instead of dressing it up as "balancing" when in reality it seems that its just another way of increasing ccps subscription income, very lame indeed.ur killing peoples chosen career paths therefore u should look at whats going at star wars galaxies just now cos their devs decided to introduce unwanted and severe changes to gameplay.
just a few points that need scrapped/rethinked/noted ...drop the sig radius damage doofie cos it makes no sense at all, stop nerfing things in game that dont need to be nerfed, if people dont like it then go play pacman and stop yer bitching. introducing new skills for missiles to bring them in line with the other gunnery skill training times is fine, but the time invested training these new skills leave missile spammers at a distinct disadvantage in lots of way i.e ship setups, extreme cargo space now required, damage inflicted to targets, raven pilots time spent training for months working on relevant raven skills so they dont have to warp out every 5 minutes like a noob doing level 4's the list goes on and on. if ccp doesnt like to see people doing well and earning good money soloing missions just take the missile boats out of the game altogether instead of dressing it up as "balancing" when in reality it seems that its just another way of increasing ccps subscription income, very lame indeed.ur killing peoples chosen career paths therefore u should look at whats going at star wars galaxies just now cos their devs decided to introduce unwanted and severe changes to gameplay.
Delta7 on 09 May 2005
30 Damage (correct damage type) for a torp on a slow (200 m/2) frig. My Hauler does the same with a 150mm railgun, loading iridium ammo and on nearly the same distance. That is me having 47K skill in gunnery and 380K in missiles. That's no rebalancing, that's just insane. This hits me being a miner and builder, and OCATIONAL mision runner - a bit hard, since it renders both my BS (Raven + Mega) pretty use less for my purposes, Raven is oveous (I carry 13 ammo types now - do you expect me to carry 16 additional ones, using 4 types of launchers in 6 lots ? c'mon - not counting the ammo for the rails) And also my mining Mega, since I trained up for it instead of the 'geddon, liking the 1 or 2 launchers I can fit on it. Leave at least the siege launcher intact, one GOT to be able to laod cruise for the lighter guys, esp with those changes) So, if a miner and bulder (5 Mill SKP - only 10% of that in any weapon skills) is unhappy - what about all tose PvP'ers and mission runners out there ? This is takein a LOT of the fun out of the game, for propably 40 to 50% of CCP's customers - and the fun is what keeps ppl in game (besides some challange) - if they leave - well - do the math PS: Anyone finding any typing or spelling errors above might keep them, me no native speaker
30 Damage (correct damage type) for a torp on a slow (200 m/2) frig. My Hauler does the same with a 150mm railgun, loading iridium ammo and on nearly the same distance. That is me having 47K skill in gunnery and 380K in missiles. That's no rebalancing, that's just insane. This hits me being a miner and builder, and OCATIONAL mision runner - a bit hard, since it renders both my BS (Raven + Mega) pretty use less for my purposes, Raven is oveous (I carry 13 ammo types now - do you expect me to carry 16 additional ones, using 4 types of launchers in 6 lots ? c'mon - not counting the ammo for the rails) And also my mining Mega, since I trained up for it instead of the 'geddon, liking the 1 or 2 launchers I can fit on it. Leave at least the siege launcher intact, one GOT to be able to laod cruise for the lighter guys, esp with those changes) So, if a miner and bulder (5 Mill SKP - only 10% of that in any weapon skills) is unhappy - what about all tose PvP'ers and mission runners out there ? This is takein a LOT of the fun out of the game, for propably 40 to 50% of CCP's customers - and the fun is what keeps ppl in game (besides some challange) - if they leave - well - do the math PS: Anyone finding any typing or spelling errors above might keep them, me no native speaker
bigmuff mcgraw on 09 May 2005
just one thing i forgot to add some people seem to be under the impression that torps/missiles do max damage everytime they detonate at the target destination ,,,fecking bs! torps dont do max damage everytime thats where the shield and armor resistances come into play, u have to pick th eright tools for the job so stop grumbling about it being unfair that missiles hit for max damage every time cos it just isnt true in game
just one thing i forgot to add some people seem to be under the impression that torps/missiles do max damage everytime they detonate at the target destination ,,,fecking bs! torps dont do max damage everytime thats where the shield and armor resistances come into play, u have to pick th eright tools for the job so stop grumbling about it being unfair that missiles hit for max damage every time cos it just isnt true in game
Delta7 on 09 May 2005
Right - guess where 13 ammo types come from :)
Right - guess where 13 ammo types come from :)
Dylatar on 09 May 2005
Args. Thats the same crap starting here than in the last game i left becuse of such nerfs. If all people want that nobody got any advantage/disadvantage than anybody else, than reduce all available ships to one, then everybody got the same ship and same fitting and nobody can complain about advantages/disadvantages. Yes, missiles always hit. Why simply not bringing out any kind of ECM which interrupts missiles targeting system (reduced chance of hit) instead? Big missiles do less damage to small ships? What crap is that? If i would fire a missile on a car it would fpr sure take more damage in relation to its size as if it hits a truck. Instead of this it was more realistic that torps are slower and can generally be evaded by small faster ships with AB or MWD. The size factored damage nerf is the most useless changing. If I use explosives to destroy a target then i do damage, if i use more explosives to destroy a target of same size, the more sure is that i will destroy it. I would suggest to develpo some type of countermeasure for missiles. Maybe electronic missile target disruption, or like chaff and flares. That would be much more realistic than a target size nerf.
Args. Thats the same crap starting here than in the last game i left becuse of such nerfs. If all people want that nobody got any advantage/disadvantage than anybody else, than reduce all available ships to one, then everybody got the same ship and same fitting and nobody can complain about advantages/disadvantages. Yes, missiles always hit. Why simply not bringing out any kind of ECM which interrupts missiles targeting system (reduced chance of hit) instead? Big missiles do less damage to small ships? What crap is that? If i would fire a missile on a car it would fpr sure take more damage in relation to its size as if it hits a truck. Instead of this it was more realistic that torps are slower and can generally be evaded by small faster ships with AB or MWD. The size factored damage nerf is the most useless changing. If I use explosives to destroy a target then i do damage, if i use more explosives to destroy a target of same size, the more sure is that i will destroy it. I would suggest to develpo some type of countermeasure for missiles. Maybe electronic missile target disruption, or like chaff and flares. That would be much more realistic than a target size nerf.
Dylatar on 09 May 2005
Addition: another more realistic suggestion to nerf oversized missiles in relation to smaller ships. No reduction in damage, but a reduction in target tracking on smaller targets. Big missiles targeting system is more precise to bigger ships, but get a reduced ability to track small targets -> smaller chance of hitting, like with big turrets on smaller targets.
Addition: another more realistic suggestion to nerf oversized missiles in relation to smaller ships. No reduction in damage, but a reduction in target tracking on smaller targets. Big missiles targeting system is more precise to bigger ships, but get a reduced ability to track small targets -> smaller chance of hitting, like with big turrets on smaller targets.
Seramis on 10 May 2005
@Dylatar: there are some possibilities to actively act against missiles (defender missiles, Smart Bombs). But defender will not be used in PvP because it wasts one high slot. But the PvPer are one of the most whining category of players for a missile nerf. Is the missile responsible for that nobody uses defender? No, the player makes his fitting.
@Dylatar: there are some possibilities to actively act against missiles (defender missiles, Smart Bombs). But defender will not be used in PvP because it wasts one high slot. But the PvPer are one of the most whining category of players for a missile nerf. Is the missile responsible for that nobody uses defender? No, the player makes his fitting.
Juniper on 10 May 2005
Can someone explain to me please what a ship's size (ie: sig radius) has to do with how much damage (hp) it takes when being hit by a missile? Surely the missile itself has its own damage, irrespective of the target? I mean, if you dropped a 50 kiloton nuke on NYC, it would do 50 kilotonnes worth of damage. If you dropped the same nuke on Brechin (a small town in Scotland) it would still do the same volume of damage. The change doesn't make sense to me...
Can someone explain to me please what a ship's size (ie: sig radius) has to do with how much damage (hp) it takes when being hit by a missile? Surely the missile itself has its own damage, irrespective of the target? I mean, if you dropped a 50 kiloton nuke on NYC, it would do 50 kilotonnes worth of damage. If you dropped the same nuke on Brechin (a small town in Scotland) it would still do the same volume of damage. The change doesn't make sense to me...
supersmurfen on 10 May 2005
im glad i can use all type of bs, this can be fun
im glad i can use all type of bs, this can be fun
Boratz on 10 May 2005
I NPC in .0 as my source of income. How will it be for my raven against the spawns after this modification? Additionally, will the NPC's be affected by this too ?
I NPC in .0 as my source of income. How will it be for my raven against the spawns after this modification? Additionally, will the NPC's be affected by this too ?
Fastbikkel on 10 May 2005
I cannot believe that a torpedo will do less damage to a frig than to a battleship. This is completely illogical. I mean, what the hell would i choose a BS for??!? Isnt it a bit unrealistic to see a Zodiac rubberboat outclass a Missouri class battleship. Even while it is being torped :-) Hilaric, we'll see what happens, but if it is no longer possible to easily dispose of a frig in a bs, then i think it's time to look at some other game. Squirt the daisies or so?
I cannot believe that a torpedo will do less damage to a frig than to a battleship. This is completely illogical. I mean, what the hell would i choose a BS for??!? Isnt it a bit unrealistic to see a Zodiac rubberboat outclass a Missouri class battleship. Even while it is being torped :-) Hilaric, we'll see what happens, but if it is no longer possible to easily dispose of a frig in a bs, then i think it's time to look at some other game. Squirt the daisies or so?
Chrizto on 10 May 2005
Hmm.. i don't know yet how big this change will be, but i think we'll be ok. I think base damage should stay the same, since it's dmg on impact. Radius damage, however, depending on ship size sounds pretty obvious. We'll see, i just hope i won't have to drop my missile skills (mostly lvl 4/5), cuz i don't have gunnery :P
Hmm.. i don't know yet how big this change will be, but i think we'll be ok. I think base damage should stay the same, since it's dmg on impact. Radius damage, however, depending on ship size sounds pretty obvious. We'll see, i just hope i won't have to drop my missile skills (mostly lvl 4/5), cuz i don't have gunnery :P
Shiva Russell on 10 May 2005
Stupid, they should keep it the same. as past people have said if a torp hits a frigate it will do just as much damage as a battleship. when does this farce come into affect??
Stupid, they should keep it the same. as past people have said if a torp hits a frigate it will do just as much damage as a battleship. when does this farce come into affect??
Hauler Joe on 10 May 2005
Cruise missile hits frig. FRIG Should be gone. because a target is smaller should not affect damage. thats not good physics. And dumb.
Cruise missile hits frig. FRIG Should be gone. because a target is smaller should not affect damage. thats not good physics. And dumb.
Raoul 2 on 10 May 2005
By continuously trying to "balance" their game, CCP is simply spoiling it... There's no point in playing a game in which the rules keep changing... CCP's management should think twice before frustrating their customers
By continuously trying to "balance" their game, CCP is simply spoiling it... There's no point in playing a game in which the rules keep changing... CCP's management should think twice before frustrating their customers
Realamigo on 10 May 2005
I think is a nerf still
I think is a nerf still
Shai Faetal on 10 May 2005
Amarr Victor, Turret FTW :D
Amarr Victor, Turret FTW :D
Smart Bomb on 10 May 2005
they insult us ravens and solo lvl 4 missioners by not calling this a nerf. Since its my main source of income i guess ill be broke for the rest of the game or switch to anew. Matrix Online here i come...
they insult us ravens and solo lvl 4 missioners by not calling this a nerf. Since its my main source of income i guess ill be broke for the rest of the game or switch to anew. Matrix Online here i come...
Smart Bomb on 10 May 2005
o yea, WTT: Raven with 6x arb siege, 2x Heavy dimishing NOS, Dread Large sheild boost, 2x cap recharger 2's, 4x PDS 2's, and a Pandamonuim BC for a Ibis Uber Nub ship with 2 civilain Beams. Contact me in game or mail me with offers...
o yea, WTT: Raven with 6x arb siege, 2x Heavy dimishing NOS, Dread Large sheild boost, 2x cap recharger 2's, 4x PDS 2's, and a Pandamonuim BC for a Ibis Uber Nub ship with 2 civilain Beams. Contact me in game or mail me with offers...
Realamigo on 10 May 2005
You tested the new skills on test server? I did and i can totally say that they nerfed them. You need 20 torps to kill a frigate and 40 torps to kill a cruise. This is stupid . I think when a battleship fight against a ship smaller this one should be doomed. With the new skills a very skilled pilot can kill a BS. Now frigates are more resistant than a battleship. Again stupid. If they continue that way i will considere to quit . Lot of time wasted for torps and Caldari BS 5 for nothing. What a s..t
You tested the new skills on test server? I did and i can totally say that they nerfed them. You need 20 torps to kill a frigate and 40 torps to kill a cruise. This is stupid . I think when a battleship fight against a ship smaller this one should be doomed. With the new skills a very skilled pilot can kill a BS. Now frigates are more resistant than a battleship. Again stupid. If they continue that way i will considere to quit . Lot of time wasted for torps and Caldari BS 5 for nothing. What a s..t
Roderic Excelion on 10 May 2005
Err... awesome! I use both types of weapon so simply put heres why and so forth to some of your questions Q) Why does a Torp do less to a frigate than a BS. A) A torp in reality couldnt hit the Frigate as it is manouverable enough to turn at the last minute, thus it misses like all those dogfighting jet-plane movies you see. In the game mechanics, this doesn't happen, so thus the rationale behind the damage reduction. Be thankful they didn't just make torps do no dammage to the frigate at all. (actually this was more a statement) Q) about it taking 10 torps to kill the frigate. A) Do what turret based ships do, and fit a smaller 'gun'. I'm sure 5 light missiles does the same thing as those 10 torps, so just fit 1 assault launcher, you ninny!
Err... awesome! I use both types of weapon so simply put heres why and so forth to some of your questions Q) Why does a Torp do less to a frigate than a BS. A) A torp in reality couldnt hit the Frigate as it is manouverable enough to turn at the last minute, thus it misses like all those dogfighting jet-plane movies you see. In the game mechanics, this doesn't happen, so thus the rationale behind the damage reduction. Be thankful they didn't just make torps do no dammage to the frigate at all. (actually this was more a statement) Q) about it taking 10 torps to kill the frigate. A) Do what turret based ships do, and fit a smaller 'gun'. I'm sure 5 light missiles does the same thing as those 10 torps, so just fit 1 assault launcher, you ninny!
Roderic Excelion on 10 May 2005
Err... forgot to say why it misses. a torp is big, chuncky and unmanouverable so overshoots and has to realign with the target, and we all know how slow it can be to realign for warp at full speed...
Err... forgot to say why it misses. a torp is big, chuncky and unmanouverable so overshoots and has to realign with the target, and we all know how slow it can be to realign for warp at full speed...
Alex The'Headhunter on 10 May 2005
totaly stupid changes that will ruin the game for half of eve players, will cancel my subscription if the changes are implemented in the current form.
totaly stupid changes that will ruin the game for half of eve players, will cancel my subscription if the changes are implemented in the current form.
Nerogk Shorn on 11 May 2005
well the one thing that i do not like is that interceptors SURVIVE by their speed that is the ONLY thing that keeps them alive... now that missiles do a lot less damage but go a lot faster... that means that an interceptor is basically now useless cause it will be hit even if it isnt for that much it will take its toll another class of ships made useless hurray but i do agree that torps hitting everything slower than 1k mps is stupid and only needs like 100k to train to, but still say goodbye to interceptors = (
well the one thing that i do not like is that interceptors SURVIVE by their speed that is the ONLY thing that keeps them alive... now that missiles do a lot less damage but go a lot faster... that means that an interceptor is basically now useless cause it will be hit even if it isnt for that much it will take its toll another class of ships made useless hurray but i do agree that torps hitting everything slower than 1k mps is stupid and only needs like 100k to train to, but still say goodbye to interceptors = (
Qlippothia on 11 May 2005
You know... the only problem that there ever was with missiles was their agility. You don't skeet shoot with ICBMs. Bigger missiles should not turn on a dime as they do, they are made to carry massive paloads and take down slow moving, very large targets. But should a smaller target be dumb enough to get into one's path, he should be smushed like a stick of butter between an elephants toes. These changes are overkill to a simple problem. All missiles should have manuverabilty according to their scale. Problem solved!!! Frigates can then get out of the way, or stay on thier course and die!!!
You know... the only problem that there ever was with missiles was their agility. You don't skeet shoot with ICBMs. Bigger missiles should not turn on a dime as they do, they are made to carry massive paloads and take down slow moving, very large targets. But should a smaller target be dumb enough to get into one's path, he should be smushed like a stick of butter between an elephants toes. These changes are overkill to a simple problem. All missiles should have manuverabilty according to their scale. Problem solved!!! Frigates can then get out of the way, or stay on thier course and die!!!
Delta7 on 11 May 2005
Good point!
Good point!
Creepalone on 11 May 2005
Half of my skills are about using missiles. Creepalone will quit if this nerf comes...end nothing more to say :-(
Half of my skills are about using missiles. Creepalone will quit if this nerf comes...end nothing more to say :-(
Spacks Cousin on 11 May 2005
quiting is not an option but change the signatur radius/dmg, turrets hits whit full dmg but bigger missiles do lower dmg on smaller ships, and with a raven and light missiles on 10km a can kill a mega :P why?
quiting is not an option but change the signatur radius/dmg, turrets hits whit full dmg but bigger missiles do lower dmg on smaller ships, and with a raven and light missiles on 10km a can kill a mega :P why?
Shiva Russell on 11 May 2005
This sucks, the problem is its going to happen no matter what we say........ even if it spoils the game, typical of CCP to not even take into account the feelings of the PAYING !!! (yes CCP we pay you) gamers
This sucks, the problem is its going to happen no matter what we say........ even if it spoils the game, typical of CCP to not even take into account the feelings of the PAYING !!! (yes CCP we pay you) gamers
Realamigo on 11 May 2005
Please less technical answer and more ships and stuff to the game. Dont forget this is just a game and we are paying for it. They should contemplate our desires.
Please less technical answer and more ships and stuff to the game. Dont forget this is just a game and we are paying for it. They should contemplate our desires.
Magnium on 11 May 2005
"VERY BAD MOVE"
"VERY BAD MOVE"
Cpt XDuguat on 11 May 2005
I've heard the missiles bays will need more power grid leaving less cap for the rest. Doono about that. I guess CCP should of told us at first to skill anything but a calderi. Big disapointment, needless to say we where at the beginning disavantaged with prices ridiculus of named missiles bay as the siege laucher that are at a nutty price. I am not whining just saying that if you really want to get some level in the game there is alot more then just adding some velocity to the missiles. Fitting an extra slot for a target painter will take some much needed modules for shields that take alot of energy. I am really disapointed about this. And further more will need to skill now those too plus skilling the missiles skills to get some results plus skilling the turrets. I mean, for old skilled players it's great but looking at it donward hill it's really discouraging and i am intermediate at 5 mil sp so this leaves the new players at large into these changes.
I've heard the missiles bays will need more power grid leaving less cap for the rest. Doono about that. I guess CCP should of told us at first to skill anything but a calderi. Big disapointment, needless to say we where at the beginning disavantaged with prices ridiculus of named missiles bay as the siege laucher that are at a nutty price. I am not whining just saying that if you really want to get some level in the game there is alot more then just adding some velocity to the missiles. Fitting an extra slot for a target painter will take some much needed modules for shields that take alot of energy. I am really disapointed about this. And further more will need to skill now those too plus skilling the missiles skills to get some results plus skilling the turrets. I mean, for old skilled players it's great but looking at it donward hill it's really discouraging and i am intermediate at 5 mil sp so this leaves the new players at large into these changes.
HDCamper Itsim on 11 May 2005
Not, good changes. Size Factored Damage: = BAD Fix something else. There are lots of other things to consider.
Not, good changes. Size Factored Damage: = BAD Fix something else. There are lots of other things to consider.
Vindicate on 11 May 2005
how can a big missile do less damage to a small ship.. *groan* it's like hitting someone in the head with a huge sledgehammer and if its a short guy he's head is okey and if the dude is 3 meters tall he's dead.. aiiiiight
how can a big missile do less damage to a small ship.. *groan* it's like hitting someone in the head with a huge sledgehammer and if its a short guy he's head is okey and if the dude is 3 meters tall he's dead.. aiiiiight
Cpt XDuguat on 11 May 2005
Will add a couple of more thing. If this is true that a bs cant even kill a frig well here goes the lvl 4 missions. CCP had disavantaged the calderi ship by getting some bonus to turrets but with les drone bays and no bonuses to them and less cap then gallente ships as calderi ships are made for long range engagements and the use of missiles... Now we got to the point where we have all the disavantages of the uses of missiles and all the disavantages from the rest. Long range engagement ships in close combat with no bonuses.
Will add a couple of more thing. If this is true that a bs cant even kill a frig well here goes the lvl 4 missions. CCP had disavantaged the calderi ship by getting some bonus to turrets but with les drone bays and no bonuses to them and less cap then gallente ships as calderi ships are made for long range engagements and the use of missiles... Now we got to the point where we have all the disavantages of the uses of missiles and all the disavantages from the rest. Long range engagement ships in close combat with no bonuses.
Ricdic on 11 May 2005
Using a raven fitted with 1 webber and 1 target painter, i fired a torpedo at a crow (player) who was travelling at 1000 ms. The torpedo hit for 35 damage. Using the exact same test as above with everything identical except that i was using cruise missiles the paradise cruise missile hit for 2.9 damage. Based on my extensive calcultations, found on the missile overhaul forum thread pages 32-37, it would take 38 torpedo's to kill one ceptor. Gotta love the "balance"
Using a raven fitted with 1 webber and 1 target painter, i fired a torpedo at a crow (player) who was travelling at 1000 ms. The torpedo hit for 35 damage. Using the exact same test as above with everything identical except that i was using cruise missiles the paradise cruise missile hit for 2.9 damage. Based on my extensive calcultations, found on the missile overhaul forum thread pages 32-37, it would take 38 torpedo's to kill one ceptor. Gotta love the "balance"
Cpt XDuguat on 11 May 2005
Just realised i wrote a stupid thing. The thorax and the Moa have same the capacitor but the thorax will chew a Moa anytime in pvp anyway...
Just realised i wrote a stupid thing. The thorax and the Moa have same the capacitor but the thorax will chew a Moa anytime in pvp anyway...
Wrayeth on 11 May 2005
OMGWTFBBQ! There are too many problem with the changes for me to go into here. Ready my post on page 38(!) of the stickied missile overhaul discussion in the Ships and Modules section of the forums for my thoughts on the matter and what to do to fix it. Hopefully they're constructive, and hopefully the devs actually give 'em a try - I think they would make Caldari ships viable in PvP again, and would prevent the nerf from ruining the Raven's ability to mission.
OMGWTFBBQ! There are too many problem with the changes for me to go into here. Ready my post on page 38(!) of the stickied missile overhaul discussion in the Ships and Modules section of the forums for my thoughts on the matter and what to do to fix it. Hopefully they're constructive, and hopefully the devs actually give 'em a try - I think they would make Caldari ships viable in PvP again, and would prevent the nerf from ruining the Raven's ability to mission.
Wrayeth on 11 May 2005
Argh...typos... :P That's supposed to be "read my post on page 38"...among other things.
Argh...typos... :P That's supposed to be "read my post on page 38"...among other things.
Akyr on 11 May 2005
just walk thru the missile thread. I've noticed, that there is no comment from ccp/dev. when the ew-changes (don't wonna use the word 'nerf') came to discussion, i saw comments like 'adjusted', 'corrected', 'added'. but this time ???... nothing. i think, we can write what we want ... no-one reads a word :-((. but there is a simple solution to the missile problem: add a anti missile railgun. all gunnery skills support guns. the only changing to do is, to put such a weapon into game. in fact, there are defender-missiles out, supported by missileskills. why not anti-missile guns ????? but this seams to be too simple....
just walk thru the missile thread. I've noticed, that there is no comment from ccp/dev. when the ew-changes (don't wonna use the word 'nerf') came to discussion, i saw comments like 'adjusted', 'corrected', 'added'. but this time ???... nothing. i think, we can write what we want ... no-one reads a word :-((. but there is a simple solution to the missile problem: add a anti missile railgun. all gunnery skills support guns. the only changing to do is, to put such a weapon into game. in fact, there are defender-missiles out, supported by missileskills. why not anti-missile guns ????? but this seams to be too simple....
Qinoly on 11 May 2005
Sounds promising, forcing fleets to be compose our of more then just torpedo spitting battleships. Besides its healty for my crusader :-)
Sounds promising, forcing fleets to be compose our of more then just torpedo spitting battleships. Besides its healty for my crusader :-)
Nerogk Shorn on 12 May 2005
ok now if it would take 38 torpedoes to kill one interceptor that sounds about right.... cause if you had a mwd on an int and it was out of webber range (which any good pilot would do) an infinite amount of torpedoes would do zero damage. Now i agree that it should rather be a missle agility thing, but that may be too hard for whatever reason and this is the only way to balance that out.
ok now if it would take 38 torpedoes to kill one interceptor that sounds about right.... cause if you had a mwd on an int and it was out of webber range (which any good pilot would do) an infinite amount of torpedoes would do zero damage. Now i agree that it should rather be a missle agility thing, but that may be too hard for whatever reason and this is the only way to balance that out.
Adam C on 12 May 2005
wts: raven
wts: raven
James Riker on 12 May 2005
wts:torps cheap
wts:torps cheap
James Riker on 12 May 2005
Waste Removal Mission briefing The lab experiments that I have been conducting as part of my work on our research project have been producing a large amount of refuse. The station manager has been quite angry with me due to the amount of space this material is taking in this stations garbage facility.. So I want you to deliver a large quantity of Garbage to Iivinen X - Moon 5 - Hyasyoda Corporation Mining Outpost, where it will be processed and then dumped at a remote location in that system ... 5821 to be exact. This mission expires at 2005.05.13 05:55:42 Overview and Objectives The following objectives must be completed to finish the mission: Transport Objective Transport these goods: Pickup Location Luminaire III - Moon 1 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory
Drop-off Location Iivinen X - Moon 5 - Hyasyoda Corporation Mining Outpost
Cargo 5821 units of Garbage (1455.3 m³)
thats all i half too say about the up comming nerf
Waste Removal Mission briefing The lab experiments that I have been conducting as part of my work on our research project have been producing a large amount of refuse. The station manager has been quite angry with me due to the amount of space this material is taking in this stations garbage facility.. So I want you to deliver a large quantity of Garbage to Iivinen X - Moon 5 - Hyasyoda Corporation Mining Outpost, where it will be processed and then dumped at a remote location in that system ... 5821 to be exact. This mission expires at 2005.05.13 05:55:42 Overview and Objectives The following objectives must be completed to finish the mission: Transport Objective Transport these goods:
enjoi on 12 May 2005
1 year 6 months and now, enjoi is outta here.
1 year 6 months and now, enjoi is outta here.
MikeDK on 12 May 2005
Just went on SISI and tried the new missiles in my Raven. I thought mostly ceptors and frigs would be affected and harder to hit with torps, so I was quite surprised to see that even cruisers aren't really taking any torp damage. I went after an Annihilator (55k bounty) and I can honstly say I have killed battleships faster than I killed that one. The bounty could not even make up the torp cost. I was also surprised at how slow the missiles were. I was reading about the changes and I got the impression that they were *much* faster. They're not even twice as fast as before. I wonder what the point of that change was, since such a minor change has zero impact on gameplay (for both pve, pvp users). If I had been in an Apoc, I would have made a piecemeal out of that nullifier in about 20 seconds. Sorry, it just does not make any sense that the largest missile in the game does less damage than a smaller one when it actually hits. I'll go along with a certain "hit-miss" ratio being built into missiles, but when they do hit, they need to do a ton of damage. I would expect a large tachyon laser to do more damage at range than a small-charge laser, for obvious reasons. It may not hit a small target that often but when it does, the damage is predictable and substantial. Torpedos are now completely useless against anything but battleships. And how often do you encounter one of those, compared to frigates and cruisers? Unless I change my gameplay completely, like doing pvp in a non-caldari ship, I don't see what this game holds for me anymore. I'm going to shop around. Guild Wars sounds nice, got great reviews. And it's free. No time grind.
Just went on SISI and tried the new missiles in my Raven. I thought mostly ceptors and frigs would be affected and harder to hit with torps, so I was quite surprised to see that even cruisers aren't really taking any torp damage. I went after an Annihilator (55k bounty) and I can honstly say I have killed battleships faster than I killed that one. The bounty could not even make up the torp cost. I was also surprised at how slow the missiles were. I was reading about the changes and I got the impression that they were *much* faster. They're not even twice as fast as before. I wonder what the point of that change was, since such a minor change has zero impact on gameplay (for both pve, pvp users). If I had been in an Apoc, I would have made a piecemeal out of that nullifier in about 20 seconds. Sorry, it just does not make any sense that the largest missile in the game does less damage than a smaller one when it actually hits. I'll go along with a certain "hit-miss" ratio being built into missiles, but when they do hit, they need to do a ton of damage. I would expect a large tachyon laser to do more damage at range than a small-charge laser, for obvious reasons. It may not hit a small target that often but when it does, the damage is predictable and substantial. Torpedos are now completely useless against anything but battleships. And how often do you encounter one of those, compared to frigates and cruisers? Unless I change my gameplay completely, like doing pvp in a non-caldari ship, I don't see what this game holds for me anymore. I'm going to shop around. Guild Wars sounds nice, got great reviews. And it's free. No time grind.
Marquain Calleur on 12 May 2005
As for missile agility, I never saw a missile turn sharply. However, since a frigate can turn extremely sharply, and a torp/cruise is orders of magnitude lighter than a frigate, I don't see it's that unlikely they can turn sharply. Game physics ain't real world physics.
As for missile agility, I never saw a missile turn sharply. However, since a frigate can turn extremely sharply, and a torp/cruise is orders of magnitude lighter than a frigate, I don't see it's that unlikely they can turn sharply. Game physics ain't real world physics.
Delta7 on 12 May 2005
This might be just the answer for recent server problems - make anought ppl leave the game - and performance will do nicely again :P
This might be just the answer for recent server problems - make anought ppl leave the game - and performance will do nicely again :P
Delta7 on 12 May 2005
*enough
*enough
Kythoma on 13 May 2005
nearly every day, im testing the missiles on SiSi with trained new skills to lv3/4. in my raven, with different setups (only pve), i could not carry as much torps/cruise as i need to kill ANY ratspawn in a reasonable time, or i missed compleatly (break the tank of a bs and got blown by the cruiser/frigs or reverse). against small, fast friggs, the only missile doing alot of damage was the 'light fof'! a nice fitting is more difficult now, because the cpu rises for all launcher and if shieldtanking, ther are not enough med-slots for target-painters) on tranq, i spend a long time in earning isk for buying a pack of arby-siege und with the new changes, i couldn't be able to load cruise/fof in to them ?? ... wastet time, also in learning 7 month caldari ships. I hope, this changes on SiSi will not be the final, if they are, maybe, it's the final for me. very dissapointed about :-((
nearly every day, im testing the missiles on SiSi with trained new skills to lv3/4. in my raven, with different setups (only pve), i could not carry as much torps/cruise as i need to kill ANY ratspawn in a reasonable time, or i missed compleatly (break the tank of a bs and got blown by the cruiser/frigs or reverse). against small, fast friggs, the only missile doing alot of damage was the 'light fof'! a nice fitting is more difficult now, because the cpu rises for all launcher and if shieldtanking, ther are not enough med-slots for target-painters) on tranq, i spend a long time in earning isk for buying a pack of arby-siege und with the new changes, i couldn't be able to load cruise/fof in to them ?? ... wastet time, also in learning 7 month caldari ships. I hope, this changes on SiSi will not be the final, if they are, maybe, it's the final for me. very dissapointed about :-((
Madswede on 13 May 2005
This is so totally wrong. The diversity between turrets and missiles will be more or less lost and the game will have lost a facet. A much simpler change would have been more reasonable. Just make it so that torps can't hir frigs. I do not understand these overhauls, EVE is a great game and does not need overhauls when minor tweaks suffice.
This is so totally wrong. The diversity between turrets and missiles will be more or less lost and the game will have lost a facet. A much simpler change would have been more reasonable. Just make it so that torps can't hir frigs. I do not understand these overhauls, EVE is a great game and does not need overhauls when minor tweaks suffice.
Naikus Gru on 13 May 2005
I am just about to get a raven so any change to missiles is going to be painful for me. However I want to try and maintain a degree of realism about this. Torps are designed for big targets, they are slow and should be less agile allowing smaller things to escape. Cruise's are fast but again their agility should be in question. I see what is being done here as a very 'quick' fix to compensate for these issues. I think a far better one would be to take into account the relative speeds and agility of the target and the missile. I will still get my Raven, but make sure I have drones that are capable of taking out the frigs and cruisers whilst I blast away with my torps at the bigger targets... hopefully...
I am just about to get a raven so any change to missiles is going to be painful for me. However I want to try and maintain a degree of realism about this. Torps are designed for big targets, they are slow and should be less agile allowing smaller things to escape. Cruise's are fast but again their agility should be in question. I see what is being done here as a very 'quick' fix to compensate for these issues. I think a far better one would be to take into account the relative speeds and agility of the target and the missile. I will still get my Raven, but make sure I have drones that are capable of taking out the frigs and cruisers whilst I blast away with my torps at the bigger targets... hopefully...
dirty weench on 13 May 2005
just wanna say ive tested quite a bit with torps / raven against a few level 4's and im sad to say my main has cancelled his account cos of the lame totally crap and unthought of missile changes they r total garbage. not balancing but a total nerfage in the true sense of the word, well done ccp if there was ever a way to alienate your PAYING! customers, well thats a bit less cash for the ccp cash pot. damn idiots!!!! eve is heading straight down the crapper big style, u killed my in game career, ccp u guys suck hairy camels ballz, get a grip and how about listening to your customers for achange and not just the turret bitches who always whine n moan about how ravens pwn everything in sight...BS!!!! im outta this s*it hole, sianora nerfers
just wanna say ive tested quite a bit with torps / raven against a few level 4's and im sad to say my main has cancelled his account cos of the lame totally crap and unthought of missile changes they r total garbage. not balancing but a total nerfage in the true sense of the word, well done ccp if there was ever a way to alienate your PAYING! customers, well thats a bit less cash for the ccp cash pot. damn idiots!!!! eve is heading straight down the crapper big style, u killed my in game career, ccp u guys suck hairy camels ballz, get a grip and how about listening to your customers for achange and not just the turret bitches who always whine n moan about how ravens pwn everything in sight...BS!!!! im outta this s*it hole, sianora nerfers
Dark Horseman on 13 May 2005
Missles are just shiny, slow speed rail gun turrets now.
Missles are just shiny, slow speed rail gun turrets now.
Boratz on 14 May 2005
I completely agree with Dirty Weench. Whatever we post here or on the forums WILL NOT be listened too. I will be cancelling my account when this nerf is introduced but I don't want to be forced to do this.
I completely agree with Dirty Weench. Whatever we post here or on the forums WILL NOT be listened too. I will be cancelling my account when this nerf is introduced but I don't want to be forced to do this.
Snow29 on 14 May 2005
if you nerf missiles then lv4 missions wont be possible anymore on your own cuse missiles needed for battleship to hit smaller ships you'll probly get a npc cruiser tanking battleship
if you nerf missiles then lv4 missions wont be possible anymore on your own cuse missiles needed for battleship to hit smaller ships you'll probly get a npc cruiser tanking battleship
Freeson on 14 May 2005
My apoc has a couple of medium lasers to mop up the small stuff. Can't a raven do the same? Just use a couple of standard launchers for small and use seige for the big on the rest
My apoc has a couple of medium lasers to mop up the small stuff. Can't a raven do the same? Just use a couple of standard launchers for small and use seige for the big on the rest
Seramis on 14 May 2005
My Raven has only 6 Launcher Hardpoints, your Apoc has 8 turret HP
My Raven has only 6 Launcher Hardpoints, your Apoc has 8 turret HP
Seramis on 14 May 2005
I talked with some german guys in german forum about the nerf. The one and only reason is that the larger missiles can hit a frigate in close orbit with full damage. Some time before Missiles did not use an interception, they used the direct way to target and so a fast target was able to outrun the missile. That was changed some time before, but instead of changing it back now the missiles get a 'Garbage' mark.
I talked with some german guys in german forum about the nerf. The one and only reason is that the larger missiles can hit a frigate in close orbit with full damage. Some time before Missiles did not use an interception, they used the direct way to target and so a fast target was able to outrun the missile. That was changed some time before, but instead of changing it back now the missiles get a 'Garbage' mark.
Warm0nger on 15 May 2005
Nerf my torps and you'll nerf your corporate wallet... You're not just neutering missiles, you're neutering the entire Caldari race.
Nerf my torps and you'll nerf your corporate wallet... You're not just neutering missiles, you're neutering the entire Caldari race.
Fragzeline on 15 May 2005
well just fit one Arbalest assault launcher on your BS. If they are doing what i think, they are up to, that should take care of frigs, and cruisers.just an idea,i dont know if it will work.But i agree in that they should start thinking of NOT changing the rules all the time. And start using therer !"(/(¤=" time ,on server LAAG, server failing and other big ISSUES. as we are paying for this game.
well just fit one Arbalest assault launcher on your BS. If they are doing what i think, they are up to, that should take care of frigs, and cruisers.just an idea,i dont know if it will work.But i agree in that they should start thinking of NOT changing the rules all the time. And start using therer !"(/(¤=" time ,on server LAAG, server failing and other big ISSUES. as we are paying for this game.
Fragzeline on 15 May 2005
Seramis, you could fit Railguns in the last to hardpoints..:)as you also have 8 Highslots.
Seramis, you could fit Railguns in the last to hardpoints..:)as you also have 8 Highslots.
blueblue apoc on 15 May 2005
wellit been a nice run of 2 year in eve time to find a game were the owners do not stick it to ya
wellit been a nice run of 2 year in eve time to find a game were the owners do not stick it to ya
Celador Nane on 15 May 2005
Just a suggestion, but why not add a new torp type, flak torpeodes that have the reverse effect, low dam to high sig radius and visa versa, this will of course need a whole new set of skills, but will also mean only a reload of torps is needed, you could make these new torps as effective as the origional ones...... also it will help against players gankin frigs at gates with torps, cuz they will be fitting for anti bs 90% of the time :-/, dont nerf missiles, if ya want to rebalance this is the way......
Just a suggestion, but why not add a new torp type, flak torpeodes that have the reverse effect, low dam to high sig radius and visa versa, this will of course need a whole new set of skills, but will also mean only a reload of torps is needed, you could make these new torps as effective as the origional ones...... also it will help against players gankin frigs at gates with torps, cuz they will be fitting for anti bs 90% of the time :-/, dont nerf missiles, if ya want to rebalance this is the way......
Cerb on 15 May 2005
better idea still, sort this f****** W*** stability out and stop F****** with game mechanics
better idea still, sort this f****** W*** stability out and stop F****** with game mechanics
Celador Nane on 15 May 2005
I agree Cerb, but if there gonna f... up the game, at least do it in a way that means i can still do my thing, just make it harder not impossible........., kinda a better of 2 evils........ Also forgot to say, could have flak heavies also :-/
I agree Cerb, but if there gonna f... up the game, at least do it in a way that means i can still do my thing, just make it harder not impossible........., kinda a better of 2 evils........ Also forgot to say, could have flak heavies also :-/
logosfold on 15 May 2005
Since a frigate with an activated MWD can outrun a torp but still has a big sig I find it rather contradictory that the larger missile types wont do much damage. surely using a mwd is like someone painting you for that.. Or am I totlay wrong here?
Since a frigate with an activated MWD can outrun a torp but still has a big sig I find it rather contradictory that the larger missile types wont do much damage. surely using a mwd is like someone painting you for that.. Or am I totlay wrong here?
Dylatar on 16 May 2005
Posetd by Roderic: Err... awesome! I use both types of weapon so simply put heres why and so forth to some of your questions Q) Why does a Torp do less to a frigate than a BS. A) A torp in reality couldnt hit the Frigate as it is manouverable enough to turn at the last minute, thus it misses like all those dogfighting jet-plane movies you see. In the game mechanics, this doesn't happen, so thus the rationale behind the damage reduction. Be thankful they didn't just make torps do no dammage to the frigate at all. (actually this was more a statement) Q) about it taking 10 torps to kill the frigate. A) Do what turret based ships do, and fit a smaller 'gun'. I'm sure 5 light missiles does the same thing as those 10 torps, so just fit 1 assault launcher, you ninny! --------------------- Theres one thing you don't calculate in: missiles (small or large) don't really have to take a direct hit to make much damage. A missile warhead not only creates a shockwave with the explosion, becuae doing damage to an object with a shockwave would be very ineffective. As shockwaves are expanding gas (compared to air-air missiles) a shockwave from a normal missile nearly does no damage. In space wheres no atmoshphere, shockwave effects are much less effective than in an athmosphere. So also in conventional missile fights between airplanes, missiles only working with the explosion shockwave always would need a direct hit to take down an airplane. But air-air-missiles 99% don't take a direct hit to an airplane.
Posetd by Roderic: Err... awesome! I use both types of weapon so simply put heres why and so forth to some of your questions Q) Why does a Torp do less to a frigate than a BS. A) A torp in reality couldnt hit the Frigate as it is manouverable enough to turn at the last minute, thus it misses like all those dogfighting jet-plane movies you see. In the game mechanics, this doesn't happen, so thus the rationale behind the damage reduction. Be thankful they didn't just make torps do no dammage to the frigate at all. (actually this was more a statement) Q) about it taking 10 torps to kill the frigate. A) Do what turret based ships do, and fit a smaller 'gun'. I'm sure 5 light missiles does the same thing as those 10 torps, so just fit 1 assault launcher, you ninny! --------------------- Theres one thing you don't calculate in: missiles (small or large) don't really have to take a direct hit to make much damage. A missile warhead not only creates a shockwave with the explosion, becuae doing damage to an object with a shockwave would be very ineffective. As shockwaves are expanding gas (compared to air-air missiles) a shockwave from a normal missile nearly does no damage. In space wheres no atmoshphere, shockwave effects are much less effective than in an athmosphere. So also in conventional missile fights between airplanes, missiles only working with the explosion shockwave always would need a direct hit to take down an airplane. But air-air-missiles 99% don't take a direct hit to an airplane.
Dylatar on 16 May 2005
Missiles do their damage by exploding as close as possible to the target and hurl scraps from within the warhead to it. So the shockwave in eve is a nice graphical effect, but its not really the thing which does the damage. It's only illuminatd gas expanding from the point of the explosion. ;) Hm, now my english is not good enough .... if i write fireworks i don't mean rockets now, only the ones which only make boom. *g* Imagine some fireworks explodes near you, what happens? Nothing - maybe you feel the shockwave but you won't get hurt. Except if a piece of it hits you. So you see, missiles are constructed to make as much damage as possible WITHOUT THE NEED to take a direct hit. The distance calculated when the proximity fuses let the warhead detonate is close enough to make enough damage to a target. The only thing affecting the damage is the distance to the detonation, as the scraps expand in all directions. Bigger warheads will produce more scraps, which impact with more power to a target, so smaller targets are affected as well as biggers.
Missiles do their damage by exploding as close as possible to the target and hurl scraps from within the warhead to it. So the shockwave in eve is a nice graphical effect, but its not really the thing which does the damage. It's only illuminatd gas expanding from the point of the explosion. ;) Hm, now my english is not good enough .... if i write fireworks i don't mean rockets now, only the ones which only make boom. *g* Imagine some fireworks explodes near you, what happens? Nothing - maybe you feel the shockwave but you won't get hurt. Except if a piece of it hits you. So you see, missiles are constructed to make as much damage as possible WITHOUT THE NEED to take a direct hit. The distance calculated when the proximity fuses let the warhead detonate is close enough to make enough damage to a target. The only thing affecting the damage is the distance to the detonation, as the scraps expand in all directions. Bigger warheads will produce more scraps, which impact with more power to a target, so smaller targets are affected as well as biggers.
Detaurus on 16 May 2005
Ravens will be equipping 8 rockets now, and run away when a turret bs approaches
Ravens will be equipping 8 rockets now, and run away when a turret bs approaches
DeClair on 17 May 2005
i rather miss a comment from the developers ! 50% of all eve players don`t want a missile nerf and some older player left game last week being afraid of the patch ... and noone from ccp gives a comment on that. really nice :-)
i rather miss a comment from the developers ! 50% of all eve players don`t want a missile nerf and some older player left game last week being afraid of the patch ... and noone from ccp gives a comment on that. really nice :-)
Seramis on 17 May 2005
Fragzeline: sure, i can fit railguns. But the Apoc also can fit 2 Siege Launchers against friggs in current situation, so no need for a change. Dylatar: your first answer is wrong. Missiles in eve are guided missiles. As long as you have a lock at the target the missile will hit. In dogfight movies there are FF missiles (fire and forget). If the pilot who launched the missile is destroyed the missile will still approach its target until the fuel is out or it hits. A gauided missile needs a foreign lock (in eve the lock of the Missile boat). If this ship is destroyed the lock is lost and the missile is useless. If this would not be like it is you would kill a Raven in your Tempest at long Range, and after u killed it the torpedos on the way to you would hit you, and maybe you would lose your ship too. And to your second question: why doing what all do? If your friend jumps from a bridge and dies would you jump from the bridge too? Do all people in your hometown drive the same car, with same color and equipment? What a boring world...how boring would eve become.
Fragzeline: sure, i can fit railguns. But the Apoc also can fit 2 Siege Launchers against friggs in current situation, so no need for a change. Dylatar: your first answer is wrong. Missiles in eve are guided missiles. As long as you have a lock at the target the missile will hit. In dogfight movies there are FF missiles (fire and forget). If the pilot who launched the missile is destroyed the missile will still approach its target until the fuel is out or it hits. A gauided missile needs a foreign lock (in eve the lock of the Missile boat). If this ship is destroyed the lock is lost and the missile is useless. If this would not be like it is you would kill a Raven in your Tempest at long Range, and after u killed it the torpedos on the way to you would hit you, and maybe you would lose your ship too. And to your second question: why doing what all do? If your friend jumps from a bridge and dies would you jump from the bridge too? Do all people in your hometown drive the same car, with same color and equipment? What a boring world...how boring would eve become.
Tuberider on 17 May 2005
throwing my arbs away and fitting rails this sucks a raven has enough probs without making it 10 torps to kill a frigate. if this happens please make extra space for all the ammo now required to go npc-ing. oh yeah thanks for turning my manti into an asshtray pointless having any cruise on it now
throwing my arbs away and fitting rails this sucks a raven has enough probs without making it 10 torps to kill a frigate. if this happens please make extra space for all the ammo now required to go npc-ing. oh yeah thanks for turning my manti into an asshtray pointless having any cruise on it now
Celador Nane on 17 May 2005
DeClair rather miss a comment from the developers ! 50% of all eve players don`t want a missile nerf and some older player left game last week being afraid of the patch ... and noone from ccp gives a comment on that. really nice :-) Thats the point 50% or more of the players dont want this change, it will make it too much bother using a raven and peeps will just ditch it for an apoc/mega etc....... we PAY for this game, our voices should be heard. I Know about 30 peeps who are solo mission runners who will quit if this patch goes through..... do you want to loose ur custom CCP? Respond here plz, u ow us that after the terrible state of the severs uve provided.
DeClair rather miss a comment from the developers ! 50% of all eve players don`t want a missile nerf and some older player left game last week being afraid of the patch ... and noone from ccp gives a comment on that. really nice :-) Thats the point 50% or more of the players dont want this change, it will make it too much bother using a raven and peeps will just ditch it for an apoc/mega etc....... we PAY for this game, our voices should be heard. I Know about 30 peeps who are solo mission runners who will quit if this patch goes through..... do you want to loose ur custom CCP? Respond here plz, u ow us that after the terrible state of the severs uve provided.
Azeal Reece on 17 May 2005
Erm.... why not just make a new kinda launcher that fires defenders that uses a high slot, but not a weapon point......, wont that balance things?
Erm.... why not just make a new kinda launcher that fires defenders that uses a high slot, but not a weapon point......, wont that balance things?
Seramis on 17 May 2005
"Nobody fits defender in PvP, that wastes a high slot." That was the comment i got from PvPer. Not '... it wastes a missile slot' but '...a high slot'. But PvP is not really the problem (Raven in PvP is rare because torpedos are too slow). The missiles are available with nearly unchanged stats from the beginning of the game. The problem is that it is easier to make Level 4 Missions in Raven than in any other Tier II BS (it is not impossible with others, but it needs more time). And some Non Raven-User don't like it that somebody can earn lot of money without being in 0.0 space. The next that will be nerfed are the Mining laser. I want that mining amount of all mining laser will be reduced to half, because u can make a lot of money with mining in secure space without any risk.
"Nobody fits defender in PvP, that wastes a high slot." That was the comment i got from PvPer. Not '... it wastes a missile slot' but '...a high slot'. But PvP is not really the problem (Raven in PvP is rare because torpedos are too slow). The missiles are available with nearly unchanged stats from the beginning of the game. The problem is that it is easier to make Level 4 Missions in Raven than in any other Tier II BS (it is not impossible with others, but it needs more time). And some Non Raven-User don't like it that somebody can earn lot of money without being in 0.0 space. The next that will be nerfed are the Mining laser. I want that mining amount of all mining laser will be reduced to half, because u can make a lot of money with mining in secure space without any risk.
jaketheuntaki on 17 May 2005
Personally the damage modifier to ship sig is stupid if a large mls exploded nr a small object it would obviously get toasted. Far better to have zero chance of hits for large missiles on small fast agile targets. Give the mls an agility factor, if the ship is inside it will hit if outside it will never hit. The damage can then be modified only by the velocity of the ship. That way peeps wont waste ammo firing on ships they can’t hit and will have to use the correct weapon for the job ala rails.
Personally the damage modifier to ship sig is stupid if a large mls exploded nr a small object it would obviously get toasted. Far better to have zero chance of hits for large missiles on small fast agile targets. Give the mls an agility factor, if the ship is inside it will hit if outside it will never hit. The damage can then be modified only by the velocity of the ship. That way peeps wont waste ammo firing on ships they can’t hit and will have to use the correct weapon for the job ala rails.
Drommy on 17 May 2005
Celador Nane 2005.05.17 11:58:48 DeClair rather miss a comment from the developers ! 50% of all eve players don`t want a missile nerf and some older player left game last week being afraid of the patch ... and noone from ccp gives a comment on that. really nice :-) Thats the point 50% or more of the players dont want this change, it will make it too much bother using a raven and peeps will just ditch it for an apoc/mega etc....... we PAY for this game, our voices should be heard. I Know about 30 peeps who are solo mission runners who will quit if this patch goes through..... do you want to loose ur custom CCP? Respond here plz, u ow us that after the terrible state of the severs uve provided. OMG someone get the wambulance! first of all, us apoc and mega uses have had to deal with 'the too much bother' of hitting smaller stuff since the the begining of time :) theres not an awfull lot of fun in insti ganking somethng smaller than u with a few torps? no wondering if ull be succesfull, no need for back up to take care of the smaller stuff, just insti kill WAHOO FUN! :P the game will be alot better off after this balance. and smaller ships will actually have a purpose again, and on the plus side, atleast ull actually be able to hit a mwd cepter now, so stop moaning :P
Celador Nane 2005.05.17 11:58:48 DeClair rather miss a comment from the developers ! 50% of all eve players don`t want a missile nerf and some older player left game last week being afraid of the patch ... and noone from ccp gives a comment on that. really nice :-) Thats the point 50% or more of the players dont want this change, it will make it too much bother using a raven and peeps will just ditch it for an apoc/mega etc....... we PAY for this game, our voices should be heard. I Know about 30 peeps who are solo mission runners who will quit if this patch goes through..... do you want to loose ur custom CCP? Respond here plz, u ow us that after the terrible state of the severs uve provided. OMG someone get the wambulance! first of all, us apoc and mega uses have had to deal with 'the too much bother' of hitting smaller stuff since the the begining of time :) theres not an awfull lot of fun in insti ganking somethng smaller than u with a few torps? no wondering if ull be succesfull, no need for back up to take care of the smaller stuff, just insti kill WAHOO FUN! :P the game will be alot better off after this balance. and smaller ships will actually have a purpose again, and on the plus side, atleast ull actually be able to hit a mwd cepter now, so stop moaning :P
Sohcahtoa on 17 May 2005
this is the caldari and raven lobby flame post...
this is the caldari and raven lobby flame post...
Kythoma on 18 May 2005
remember the pulse-laser nerf ... who was crying ?? amarr !!!
remember the pulse-laser nerf ... who was crying ?? amarr !!!
Shaemell Buttleson on 18 May 2005
I wont say I am going to quit the game and sulk about it, Everyone has the chance to learn different tactics to cope with the change whatever the final one is and whenever it is. However due to the fact that other BS's with large weapons can frag a frigate in 1 shot and cruisers in just a few it does seem a might unfair that the primary weapon of the raven cannot do this. As for the missions not being achievable solo anymore I remember that when level 4's were first discussed and talked about the plans were that they would be tailored to have a group to complete them. So allthough I do level 4 solo at mo CCP have not in fact changed anything they first promised. In conclusion my thoughts are keep the damage the same but make it harder to hit smaller ships like it is with large turrets. I know it is supposed to be really hard to get that programmed in and have heard it causes problems etc etc etc. I just cant see why it cannot be programmed with some lateral thinking. Also get rid of the huge explosions on the torps, they dont do radius damage anymore why have it?
I wont say I am going to quit the game and sulk about it, Everyone has the chance to learn different tactics to cope with the change whatever the final one is and whenever it is. However due to the fact that other BS's with large weapons can frag a frigate in 1 shot and cruisers in just a few it does seem a might unfair that the primary weapon of the raven cannot do this. As for the missions not being achievable solo anymore I remember that when level 4's were first discussed and talked about the plans were that they would be tailored to have a group to complete them. So allthough I do level 4 solo at mo CCP have not in fact changed anything they first promised. In conclusion my thoughts are keep the damage the same but make it harder to hit smaller ships like it is with large turrets. I know it is supposed to be really hard to get that programmed in and have heard it causes problems etc etc etc. I just cant see why it cannot be programmed with some lateral thinking. Also get rid of the huge explosions on the torps, they dont do radius damage anymore why have it?
Xardrix on 18 May 2005
NO! Mega pulses cannot (for example) "frag a frigate" in 1 shot. In fact, unless we can convince the frig to fly at 0 transversal velocity at optimal range, we cannot even hit it at all. These Nerfs (thats what they are) are in line with what is being done to all the other large ships in order to keep the frigate using populace in PVP. ANd lets get nothing confused... PVP is the only thing thats gonna keep a player playing for 1-2 YEARS or more. As for the NPC missions.. i suggest you start packing light missiles. The rest of the non-Raven Mission Runners, We still have to rely on drones to kill the frigs. In summation. I fully support the changes. Even thou i also use missiles, i feel its a well thought out, and very balanced change, thats bound to make combat more fun for smaller ship pilots...
NO! Mega pulses cannot (for example) "frag a frigate" in 1 shot. In fact, unless we can convince the frig to fly at 0 transversal velocity at optimal range, we cannot even hit it at all. These Nerfs (thats what they are) are in line with what is being done to all the other large ships in order to keep the frigate using populace in PVP. ANd lets get nothing confused... PVP is the only thing thats gonna keep a player playing for 1-2 YEARS or more. As for the NPC missions.. i suggest you start packing light missiles. The rest of the non-Raven Mission Runners, We still have to rely on drones to kill the frigs. In summation. I fully support the changes. Even thou i also use missiles, i feel its a well thought out, and very balanced change, thats bound to make combat more fun for smaller ship pilots...
raser on 18 May 2005
Drommi OMG someone get the wambulance! first of all, us apoc and mega uses have had to deal with 'the too much bother' of hitting smaller stuff since the the begining of time :) theres not an awfull lot of fun in insti ganking somethng smaller than u with a few torps? no wondering if ull be succesfull, no need for back up to take care of the smaller stuff, just insti kill WAHOO FUN! :P the game will be alot better off after this balance. and smaller ships will actually have a purpose again, and on the plus side, atleast ull actually be able to hit a mwd cepter now, so stop moaning :P
Drommi OMG someone get the wambulance! first of all, us apoc and mega uses have had to deal with 'the too much bother' of hitting smaller stuff since the the begining of time :) theres not an awfull lot of fun in insti ganking somethng smaller than u with a few torps? no wondering if ull be succesfull, no need for back up to take care of the smaller stuff, just insti kill WAHOO FUN! :P the game will be alot better off after this balance. and smaller ships will actually have a purpose again, and on the plus side, atleast ull actually be able to hit a mwd cepter now, so stop moaning :P
raser on 18 May 2005
^^^^ hes forgeting the this size factoring damage applies to crusier HAC and assualt....... a HAC can already tank a bs, now one could tank 5 ravens..... is that what they want???, also npc cruisers taking 8vollies of torps........ how many times are we expected to go back and reload.... at tops i can carry 1048.. i was in a caracal and got popped in seconds by an apoc..... a raven after this patch and i could tank it with a good setup........... this is f.......ing stupid + dommi im sure peeps do find it fun popping frigs in 1 hit..... us cal pilots are getting screwed again
^^^^ hes forgeting the this size factoring damage applies to crusier HAC and assualt....... a HAC can already tank a bs, now one could tank 5 ravens..... is that what they want???, also npc cruisers taking 8vollies of torps........ how many times are we expected to go back and reload.... at tops i can carry 1048.. i was in a caracal and got popped in seconds by an apoc..... a raven after this patch and i could tank it with a good setup........... this is f.......ing stupid + dommi im sure peeps do find it fun popping frigs in 1 hit..... us cal pilots are getting screwed again
BBizkit on 19 May 2005
i think people are not reading into things properly again, the raven will be great for anti BS work but from reports on SiSi HAC's i.e the deimos will now be able to eat a raven to pieces with the raven not having enough time to defend itself properly currently as eve stood ravens were great at killing frigs with torps your right....thats if the frigs ran out of cap from mwd'ing around us in circles...ok so we fit 2 Nosf to drain them...i have 2 account and one is an Amarran ship my poc is just as capable of dealing with pesky ceptors by using 2 nos and drones so i see no problem with the way things are....also as for t2 gun users i remind you that with the correct fitting we have been anle to kill frigs and intys easily...im referring to 2 tracking enhancers and 2 tracking comp 2's....as it goesthis patch will hopefully improve the cerberus to frig master killer...and the crow to a new level of fun wen engageing pesky taranis ships... so in summary some good some bad :) so as with any change, lets test, lets actually report our findings and lets not whien fi we havnt tested it...
i think people are not reading into things properly again, the raven will be great for anti BS work but from reports on SiSi HAC's i.e the deimos will now be able to eat a raven to pieces with the raven not having enough time to defend itself properly currently as eve stood ravens were great at killing frigs with torps your right....thats if the frigs ran out of cap from mwd'ing around us in circles...ok so we fit 2 Nosf to drain them...i have 2 account and one is an Amarran ship my poc is just as capable of dealing with pesky ceptors by using 2 nos and drones so i see no problem with the way things are....also as for t2 gun users i remind you that with the correct fitting we have been anle to kill frigs and intys easily...im referring to 2 tracking enhancers and 2 tracking comp 2's....as it goesthis patch will hopefully improve the cerberus to frig master killer...and the crow to a new level of fun wen engageing pesky taranis ships... so in summary some good some bad :) so as with any change, lets test, lets actually report our findings and lets not whien fi we havnt tested it...
Styllzzzz on 20 May 2005
I've read about half of these posts. Mostly comments about the Raven bs not being able to kill frigs after the change, because torps do less dmg to frigs. I have one question for you: Ever heard of drones?
I've read about half of these posts. Mostly comments about the Raven bs not being able to kill frigs after the change, because torps do less dmg to frigs. I have one question for you: Ever heard of drones?
Invictor on 20 May 2005
Are the Dev's going to respond to these comments ?? They have been very quiet on the forums regarding this nerf so I was just wondering if this is already going ahead without tweaking or will they listen to the paying customers ???
Are the Dev's going to respond to these comments ?? They have been very quiet on the forums regarding this nerf so I was just wondering if this is already going ahead without tweaking or will they listen to the paying customers ???
raser on 20 May 2005
Will drones take a HAC i dont think so, how will a raven ever stand a chance against a HAC if it does 1/2 damage?, if tech 5 gonna be peeps in T 5 pods with 20 XL lasers caining eveything...... will a pod be able to tank a raven now?
Will drones take a HAC i dont think so, how will a raven ever stand a chance against a HAC if it does 1/2 damage?, if tech 5 gonna be peeps in T 5 pods with 20 XL lasers caining eveything...... will a pod be able to tank a raven now?
Chen Z'Arch on 21 May 2005
Just shows the devs fly Frigs. The skills to fly a BS should have been harder. This patch is about as ridiculous as saying a speedboat has the chance of surving a war with a destroyer. BS patch, try again.
Just shows the devs fly Frigs. The skills to fly a BS should have been harder. This patch is about as ridiculous as saying a speedboat has the chance of surving a war with a destroyer. BS patch, try again.
Storm Mage on 22 May 2005
All I can say is #1 is just plain stupid, granted if the missles in EVE were more like depth charges I wouldn't mind but they are not so I do mind. This patch has me seriously debating if I eve want to wait for it and see how bad it is or just cancel all 4 of my accounts now and go play Navy Field.
All I can say is #1 is just plain stupid, granted if the missles in EVE were more like depth charges I wouldn't mind but they are not so I do mind. This patch has me seriously debating if I eve want to wait for it and see how bad it is or just cancel all 4 of my accounts now and go play Navy Field.
Skrog on 23 May 2005
here we go again - more bloody skills and more useless changes to the game getting tired of always playing catchup and when we do it gets screwed up again
here we go again - more bloody skills and more useless changes to the game getting tired of always playing catchup and when we do it gets screwed up again
Gut Buster on 23 May 2005
fabulous
fabulous
Hurr S'jet on 23 May 2005
One thing that i am worried about in the new missle changes, are the fact that frigates are going to be harder to kill. Because in all acuallity while torpedos are probubly not going to hit the frig. There massive explosion radius should more then take one out.
One thing that i am worried about in the new missle changes, are the fact that frigates are going to be harder to kill. Because in all acuallity while torpedos are probubly not going to hit the frig. There massive explosion radius should more then take one out.
Ben Hump on 23 May 2005
i think this is great because with missiles now u can be a total noob on a raven and kill your ass off with no skills but after this u will actually need SKILLS for the missiles like the turrets i think this just good for the game
i think this is great because with missiles now u can be a total noob on a raven and kill your ass off with no skills but after this u will actually need SKILLS for the missiles like the turrets i think this just good for the game
Psycoris on 24 May 2005
I dissagree on the first thing that is happening the less damage to smaller ships. The bigger blast radius the more of the ship it would encompass and therefor do more damage. If it is to balance the things for the smaller ships then add something like an "evasion percentile" or Tracking ability of the missiles to cause them to miss completly instead of less damage. Other than that sounds like a respectable revision to the missle system.
I dissagree on the first thing that is happening the less damage to smaller ships. The bigger blast radius the more of the ship it would encompass and therefor do more damage. If it is to balance the things for the smaller ships then add something like an "evasion percentile" or Tracking ability of the missiles to cause them to miss completly instead of less damage. Other than that sounds like a respectable revision to the missle system.
WOLVER1NE on 27 May 2005
Trained caldari bs to lvl 5 to fit assault launchers ??? TYU very much .
Trained caldari bs to lvl 5 to fit assault launchers ??? TYU very much .
FOXER on 28 May 2005
like see done far , bit off over kill on nerf need bit more dmg back plz
like see done far , bit off over kill on nerf need bit more dmg back plz
Rowan Wiggin on 28 May 2005
@Xardrix: Let me get this straight, the only thing that keeps people in the game for 1-2 years is PvP? I tend to disagree. I've been playing for 1 year now, doing missions, mostly solo. If I can no longer do that, I'm out. This is what I like to do. Thank you. Don't cut everyone with your own razor Xardrix, some of us may have other preferences. Now, I'm not going to leave the game straight off the bat, I'll see what can be done with the new skills and perhaps using drones or a couple turrets to take out the small fish, but if I need a frig for backup to complete missions, you can count me out, and I will assume I'm not alone. Have you ever noticed that there are more caldari out there than any other race? So yes, that means that caldari ships are overpowered in missions, fair enough, but it also means that when you nerf the main tank of the caldari, you effectively anger a large percentile of your PAYING CUSTOMERS! Our money is what keeps Eve running, don't we get a say in what they do to it? I should think developer time could be expended better in fixing the lag resultant from 200+ ppl in high-sec highway systems and maybe even making sure the servers run a bit more stable? It's just a suggestion, of course.
@Xardrix: Let me get this straight, the only thing that keeps people in the game for 1-2 years is PvP? I tend to disagree. I've been playing for 1 year now, doing missions, mostly solo. If I can no longer do that, I'm out. This is what I like to do. Thank you. Don't cut everyone with your own razor Xardrix, some of us may have other preferences. Now, I'm not going to leave the game straight off the bat, I'll see what can be done with the new skills and perhaps using drones or a couple turrets to take out the small fish, but if I need a frig for backup to complete missions, you can count me out, and I will assume I'm not alone. Have you ever noticed that there are more caldari out there than any other race? So yes, that means that caldari ships are overpowered in missions, fair enough, but it also means that when you nerf the main tank of the caldari, you effectively anger a large percentile of your PAYING CUSTOMERS! Our money is what keeps Eve running, don't we get a say in what they do to it? I should think developer time could be expended better in fixing the lag resultant from 200+ ppl in high-sec highway systems and maybe even making sure the servers run a bit more stable? It's just a suggestion, of course.
FOXER on 28 May 2005
working in team lot fun on agent misson but can be hard get some one you no that ready do misson at same time + lv4 misson not that safe to solo start with ie week end sever lag , see why need torp nerf on small ship in pvp and solw down how fast raven can solo lv4 misson , like see pvp last lot longer then way it now but with new update on skill and how low dmg is and need fix weber+ target panter cant be good for shield tank , more med slot like scorp ? but no need go mad yet guys as all in testing so hope see done far on all side pvp and misson :) and yes spelling crap
working in team lot fun on agent misson but can be hard get some one you no that ready do misson at same time + lv4 misson not that safe to solo start with ie week end sever lag , see why need torp nerf on small ship in pvp and solw down how fast raven can solo lv4 misson , like see pvp last lot longer then way it now but with new update on skill and how low dmg is and need fix weber+ target panter cant be good for shield tank , more med slot like scorp ? but no need go mad yet guys as all in testing so hope see done far on all side pvp and misson :) and yes spelling crap
Azeal Reece on 29 May 2005
I find its not as much the idea of size factoring damage that bothers me, its the extent its applied (even tho the idea is completly stupid), a frigate taking the amount of torps on the test sever is stupid, with assualt lauchers fitted it will mean the bigger ships could tank you.... so the answear, fit 6 assualts (take out frigate) then go back and fit 6 seiges, this doesnt make missions harder, just even more time consuming, i DONT have that much goddam time, a GE l4 aready is impractical if uve got any life outside of eve, after this nerf i just wont have the time :(, + ur trying to get peeps to group together, im from the uk and work nights, my corpies arnt online for 90% of my playing time, this nerf will actually stop me runnning missions, ............... and what do peeps say ... goto PVP, well how am u supposed to get fitted and ready for PVP (which means getting prepared to fight bs's tbh if ur solo), if i cant earn cash by fighting?, i DONT want to mine, i want to run missions till ive got the funds and skills to PVP, why dont they just improve the other race ships for PVE, hell im sick of all the ravens doing l4's. would be nice to see a change......... anyway ive blabbered enuff, it just would be nice to hear a DEV post here, cuz u know we do pay there wages..........
I find its not as much the idea of size factoring damage that bothers me, its the extent its applied (even tho the idea is completly stupid), a frigate taking the amount of torps on the test sever is stupid, with assualt lauchers fitted it will mean the bigger ships could tank you.... so the answear, fit 6 assualts (take out frigate) then go back and fit 6 seiges, this doesnt make missions harder, just even more time consuming, i DONT have that much goddam time, a GE l4 aready is impractical if uve got any life outside of eve, after this nerf i just wont have the time :(, + ur trying to get peeps to group together, im from the uk and work nights, my corpies arnt online for 90% of my playing time, this nerf will actually stop me runnning missions, ............... and what do peeps say ... goto PVP, well how am u supposed to get fitted and ready for PVP (which means getting prepared to fight bs's tbh if ur solo), if i cant earn cash by fighting?, i DONT want to mine, i want to run missions till ive got the funds and skills to PVP, why dont they just improve the other race ships for PVE, hell im sick of all the ravens doing l4's. would be nice to see a change......... anyway ive blabbered enuff, it just would be nice to hear a DEV post here, cuz u know we do pay there wages..........
22bud on 30 May 2005
Geesh...you devs must think that everyone has the time to gather a team for every missing. My play time is limited...I run lots of missions solo. If you screw up my ability to take out fast frigates you kill solo plan. And lets get real... a big F&%$ing missle is going to do big F$%^&ing damage to a little ship. If you kill solo play...then I guess I'll need to find another game that doesn't. And...that really sucks because I have been playin EvE since beta.
Geesh...you devs must think that everyone has the time to gather a team for every missing. My play time is limited...I run lots of missions solo. If you screw up my ability to take out fast frigates you kill solo plan. And lets get real... a big F&%$ing missle is going to do big F$%^&ing damage to a little ship. If you kill solo play...then I guess I'll need to find another game that doesn't. And...that really sucks because I have been playin EvE since beta.
Azeal Reece on 31 May 2005
^^^^^ Exactly, maybe for once they will stop changing everything to suit whining PVPers and pirates............ if players want to solo L4 missions let them.. making cash and putting good items on the market isnt a bad thing
^^^^^ Exactly, maybe for once they will stop changing everything to suit whining PVPers and pirates............ if players want to solo L4 missions let them.. making cash and putting good items on the market isnt a bad thing
Argon Ambrose on 01 June 2005
Hi guys, that's a good improvement. Gives the game a more realistic touch. But please keep in mind that it might be possible that a missile touches a frig and can destroy it if you have an idiot flying or the pilot is sleeping. What about taking the target ships speed into account ? cheers
Hi guys, that's a good improvement. Gives the game a more realistic touch. But please keep in mind that it might be possible that a missile touches a frig and can destroy it if you have an idiot flying or the pilot is sleeping. What about taking the target ships speed into account ? cheers
Zeko Rena on 01 June 2005
lol they are all good ideas, except that small targets take less damage from larger missles. Soon there wont be battleships in 0.0, it will be full of frigates and interceptors lol.
lol they are all good ideas, except that small targets take less damage from larger missles. Soon there wont be battleships in 0.0, it will be full of frigates and interceptors lol.
Tayira on 01 June 2005
@zeko .. agree :-)))))
@zeko .. agree :-)))))
James Kagawa on 01 June 2005
Where in physics does it state a missile's velocity effects the overall explosive yeild? If anything, velocity should only effect flight time and or aqusition. For that matter, where does it state LARGER yeilds do LESS damage to SMALLER targets? If you're so eager to nerf, at the least just hammer the damage done by each missile type down a bit, rather than straying so far from reality that it's laughable.
Where in physics does it state a missile's velocity effects the overall explosive yeild? If anything, velocity should only effect flight time and or aqusition. For that matter, where does it state LARGER yeilds do LESS damage to SMALLER targets? If you're so eager to nerf, at the least just hammer the damage done by each missile type down a bit, rather than straying so far from reality that it's laughable.
James Kagawa on 01 June 2005
And on a last note: To all those whining about how you pay CCP and they do this... Do what I did, stop paying! ;)
And on a last note: To all those whining about how you pay CCP and they do this... Do what I did, stop paying! ;)
Harliquin's Shadow on 03 June 2005
Hmmmmmmm, Missles are not kinetic or laser based weapons. They don't have the same charateristics and they never will. Missiles are a type of weapon in themselves, and making some of the changes to bring them in line with other types of hardware is, in my opinion, inappropriate. The biggest of which is reducing damage to a low sig ship regardless of situation? That is preposterous. A low sig ship typically indicates a frigate, and if a torp can get close enough to explode by a frig it dies. Its dead, thats it. But then a torp is typically fired from a battleship and if a frig attacks it there would always be some understanding of the outcome on both sides. BS > Frig = Death. I understand tracking speeds on turrets, thats good, but this is just a bad attempt to attempt to balance the game.
Hmmmmmmm, Missles are not kinetic or laser based weapons. They don't have the same charateristics and they never will. Missiles are a type of weapon in themselves, and making some of the changes to bring them in line with other types of hardware is, in my opinion, inappropriate. The biggest of which is reducing damage to a low sig ship regardless of situation? That is preposterous. A low sig ship typically indicates a frigate, and if a torp can get close enough to explode by a frig it dies. Its dead, thats it. But then a torp is typically fired from a battleship and if a frig attacks it there would always be some understanding of the outcome on both sides. BS > Frig = Death. I understand tracking speeds on turrets, thats good, but this is just a bad attempt to attempt to balance the game.
Justice Fury on 07 June 2005
This missile damage to size mod is silly on several levels. First, why the hell are they trying to balance something that's inherently unbalanced. A frigate is a frigate, it has certain jobs it does well and others it shouldn't be considered for. To try to balance a frigate with a battleship is plain stupid. With this mod, a group of frigates could overwhelm and destroy a battleship which is, or should be, ridiculous. Second, In space, there is no "blast radius". Certain typed of energy can be transmitted through space. Electromagnetic energy is one, this includes heat, and fragmentation, or the junk that comes from the missile when it explodes. As there is no air in space, a concussion doesnt happen. Shooting missiles with some type of proximity fuse in a vacuum is highly ineffective. The payoff happens when that sucker smacks the target and all the energy is delivered at the point of impact. Otherwise, all you'd need is some heat and radiation shields. It seems small fragments from a missile explosion would be inconsistant and haphazard at best.
This missile damage to size mod is silly on several levels. First, why the hell are they trying to balance something that's inherently unbalanced. A frigate is a frigate, it has certain jobs it does well and others it shouldn't be considered for. To try to balance a frigate with a battleship is plain stupid. With this mod, a group of frigates could overwhelm and destroy a battleship which is, or should be, ridiculous. Second, In space, there is no "blast radius". Certain typed of energy can be transmitted through space. Electromagnetic energy is one, this includes heat, and fragmentation, or the junk that comes from the missile when it explodes. As there is no air in space, a concussion doesnt happen. Shooting missiles with some type of proximity fuse in a vacuum is highly ineffective. The payoff happens when that sucker smacks the target and all the energy is delivered at the point of impact. Otherwise, all you'd need is some heat and radiation shields. It seems small fragments from a missile explosion would be inconsistant and haphazard at best.
Justice Fury on 07 June 2005
Which brings me to another thing that affects me and many other players as well. It seems that the devs only want you to play the game one way and one way only. If your not a pirate or a pvp'er, you don't seem to matter. I don't live in front of my computer as it would appear that many who play do. My play time is limited. It seems that everytime i figure out a way to make some cash, ie; L4 missions with a raven, it gets nerfed, getting tech two components from missions, nerfed, you name it, if it worked for you as a solo player, it probably go nerfed. More and more the game is getting to be a pain in the ass to play. You can't get ahead cause the devs do everything in their power to keep you from playing by yourself. I'd rather watch paint dry than mine, im not paying to sit around and pop roids. So, to the CCP and the DEVS, go ahead, nerf everything, keep me from playing solo, make it impossible for me to profit. When the game isn't fun anymore, I'm gone and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Which brings me to another thing that affects me and many other players as well. It seems that the devs only want you to play the game one way and one way only. If your not a pirate or a pvp'er, you don't seem to matter. I don't live in front of my computer as it would appear that many who play do. My play time is limited. It seems that everytime i figure out a way to make some cash, ie; L4 missions with a raven, it gets nerfed, getting tech two components from missions, nerfed, you name it, if it worked for you as a solo player, it probably go nerfed. More and more the game is getting to be a pain in the ass to play. You can't get ahead cause the devs do everything in their power to keep you from playing by yourself. I'd rather watch paint dry than mine, im not paying to sit around and pop roids. So, to the CCP and the DEVS, go ahead, nerf everything, keep me from playing solo, make it impossible for me to profit. When the game isn't fun anymore, I'm gone and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Akyr on 08 June 2005
i totally agree to the posting of justice. i never could write it better ....
i totally agree to the posting of justice. i never could write it better ....
Kassimila on 08 June 2005
I'd like to point out the fact that a tempest turned it's tech2 1400mm howitsers to my rifter. Instantly locked, fired, and I died. Is that going to be changed too? Because I will be exposed to less of the bullet....right? Then again, mabye Raven Pilots will just have to adapt. Here's a tip, I'd pickup target painting.
I'd like to point out the fact that a tempest turned it's tech2 1400mm howitsers to my rifter. Instantly locked, fired, and I died. Is that going to be changed too? Because I will be exposed to less of the bullet....right? Then again, mabye Raven Pilots will just have to adapt. Here's a tip, I'd pickup target painting.
FlashmanUK on 08 June 2005
Im gonna summerise on my first bitching on blogs, I agree with the big missile small ship no damage, i agree if a A10 send a hail of rockets at a paper boat it should sink, to say the least PWNAGE! i thought the idea of frigs was to be able to outrun missiles, and i agree there should be a mod to 'chaff' the missiles away. I think if your gonna kill of the caldaris love of missile atleast convert there ships to carry more guns not rockets, give them a chance, otherwise we'll see ravens hitting the 50m mark, ut a genrally good idea.
Im gonna summerise on my first bitching on blogs, I agree with the big missile small ship no damage, i agree if a A10 send a hail of rockets at a paper boat it should sink, to say the least PWNAGE! i thought the idea of frigs was to be able to outrun missiles, and i agree there should be a mod to 'chaff' the missiles away. I think if your gonna kill of the caldaris love of missile atleast convert there ships to carry more guns not rockets, give them a chance, otherwise we'll see ravens hitting the 50m mark, ut a genrally good idea.
Babalon on 10 June 2005
The new system will be the end for all solo players. Any chance of hitting a tackler and getting away before a gaiant fleet of 'good' players arrive. I pay for this crap. LMAO. It really isnt funny. No, im not joining some stupid alliance. Fix the game or ill go play something else. Oh wait I already am.
The new system will be the end for all solo players. Any chance of hitting a tackler and getting away before a gaiant fleet of 'good' players arrive. I pay for this crap. LMAO. It really isnt funny. No, im not joining some stupid alliance. Fix the game or ill go play something else. Oh wait I already am.
WarRocket Ajax on 11 June 2005
2 weeks to go before this nerf kicks in and 3 of my accounts gets cancelled :) congratz
2 weeks to go before this nerf kicks in and 3 of my accounts gets cancelled :) congratz
Tortoise on 13 June 2005
I am having problems with the concept of small ship less damage it dose not make sense, if a surface ship is hit by a missile it is lost dose not mater the size of the ship. Why not take a page from current reality if you want to avoid a missile then use countermeasures and aversive mauves. There are many countermeasures depending on the missile targeting system.
I am having problems with the concept of small ship less damage it dose not make sense, if a surface ship is hit by a missile it is lost dose not mater the size of the ship. Why not take a page from current reality if you want to avoid a missile then use countermeasures and aversive mauves. There are many countermeasures depending on the missile targeting system.
Tortoise on 13 June 2005
I have a high skill level with reference to railguns and moved to missiles when you kindly made then less than useless. I like to play on my own where do I move now, I get the impression you would like me to find a new game?
I have a high skill level with reference to railguns and moved to missiles when you kindly made then less than useless. I like to play on my own where do I move now, I get the impression you would like me to find a new game?
Gut Buster on 14 June 2005
When you make it so that I can't take down the picket frigates in the belts or on missions with a Raven, I quit. All three of my accounts are gone and if I quit, my brother will cancel his three accounts. CCP needs to make a disclaimer so that people will be warned before they start playing "YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY THIS GAME SOLO. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DO SO, IT WILL NOT BE ALLOWED" I fear that this game is going the way of EAA's online games, (earth and beyond, Motor City Online), mismanaged to destruction. Good luck, but again, they nerf my battleship into uselessness, I'm gone.
When you make it so that I can't take down the picket frigates in the belts or on missions with a Raven, I quit. All three of my accounts are gone and if I quit, my brother will cancel his three accounts. CCP needs to make a disclaimer so that people will be warned before they start playing "YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY THIS GAME SOLO. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DO SO, IT WILL NOT BE ALLOWED" I fear that this game is going the way of EAA's online games, (earth and beyond, Motor City Online), mismanaged to destruction. Good luck, but again, they nerf my battleship into uselessness, I'm gone.
Kassimila on 16 June 2005
I had a thought today, since we are in the process of "Balancing" guns and missiles. The Apoc has 8 turret slots, the Armageddon has 7. 7 turrets on a mega, 6 on a dom, 4/4 on a typhoon, 6/4 on a tempest. Ok....lets see here....4 launchers on a scorp...6 on a raven.... I think I just found the problem.. Perhaps, you should make it 8 launchers(No turrets) on a raven, and 6/2 split on the scorp. See, this would BALANCE things out, so I could do neat things, like have my torps, my cruise, or even...yes...I'll say it..my assault launchers for pesky frigs. Since we are in the proccess of creating balance right? Because ships like the apoc, they have the option of 5 Large guns, 1 medium, and 2 small...so that they can kill the smaller ships.. Do you honestly think I will be able to kill a battleship with 3 torp launchers? I think this would be the solution to change the way missiles are used, without totally destroying any possible purpose for a Raven/Scorp to have.
I had a thought today, since we are in the process of "Balancing" guns and missiles. The Apoc has 8 turret slots, the Armageddon has 7. 7 turrets on a mega, 6 on a dom, 4/4 on a typhoon, 6/4 on a tempest. Ok....lets see here....4 launchers on a scorp...6 on a raven.... I think I just found the problem.. Perhaps, you should make it 8 launchers(No turrets) on a raven, and 6/2 split on the scorp. See, this would BALANCE things out, so I could do neat things, like have my torps, my cruise, or even...yes...I'll say it..my assault launchers for pesky frigs. Since we are in the proccess of creating balance right? Because ships like the apoc, they have the option of 5 Large guns, 1 medium, and 2 small...so that they can kill the smaller ships.. Do you honestly think I will be able to kill a battleship with 3 torp launchers? I think this would be the solution to change the way missiles are used, without totally destroying any possible purpose for a Raven/Scorp to have.
Insight on 21 June 2005
Small shoulder launched missile hits object... does small amount of damage.. Great big tomahawk missile hits same size object, obliterates it... Your proposed change just doesn't make sense tbh and contradicts anything known about missiles or the concept of things hitting objects at high speed and exploding.. more warhead = more destruction simple as that. I agree with some of these other comments... this is a silly change and will screw up people being able to work solo Do i stop playing? Do i have to train for a different race's ship skills because the Raven and Scorpion are now useless? ... Countermeasures are the way, don't mess with the damage
Small shoulder launched missile hits object... does small amount of damage.. Great big tomahawk missile hits same size object, obliterates it... Your proposed change just doesn't make sense tbh and contradicts anything known about missiles or the concept of things hitting objects at high speed and exploding.. more warhead = more destruction simple as that. I agree with some of these other comments... this is a silly change and will screw up people being able to work solo Do i stop playing? Do i have to train for a different race's ship skills because the Raven and Scorpion are now useless? ... Countermeasures are the way, don't mess with the damage
Teraille on 21 June 2005
great, i wonder how many people are gonna try this game and think to themselves 'i dont wanna train missiles for months, i just wanna have fun and kill things' then leave the game...never to be seen again :0
great, i wonder how many people are gonna try this game and think to themselves 'i dont wanna train missiles for months, i just wanna have fun and kill things' then leave the game...never to be seen again :0
Max DeathWish on 23 June 2005
I agree w/ Azeal Reece re: it's not so "ridiculous" as so many seem to think, that a torp would not reach its "full dmg potential" against a tiny target. What is ridiculous is the *extent* to which this concept has been applied so far on the test server. Dmg should range from 25-50% of "max", *not* be reduced to near zero. Concurrent with this change needs to be a reintroduction of the large blast radius concept - if dmg is to be reduced against smaller targets, then there needs to be a corresponding increase in the number of targets that can be damaged.
I agree w/ Azeal Reece re: it's not so "ridiculous" as so many seem to think, that a torp would not reach its "full dmg potential" against a tiny target. What is ridiculous is the *extent* to which this concept has been applied so far on the test server. Dmg should range from 25-50% of "max", *not* be reduced to near zero. Concurrent with this change needs to be a reintroduction of the large blast radius concept - if dmg is to be reduced against smaller targets, then there needs to be a corresponding increase in the number of targets that can be damaged.
Max DeathWish on 23 June 2005
I also like the idea of specialized missiles to take on smaller targets - e.g., the "flak torpedo" concept somebody mentioned, although I would envision something more along the lines of a MIRV - a warhead that splits off into multiple smaller missiles when it nears its target. MIRV = "Multiple Independently-targeted Reentry Vehicle", so we'd need a different acronym - "Multiple Independently-targeted Missiles" (MIM's) or something. Could be scaled to Cruise or Torp level with FoF varieties as well. Basically, would be designed to fit a BS-sized launcher, yet still do full dmg against frigates (around half? the max dmg of a normal cruise or torp). This would allow a BS to attack smaller targets w/o requiring a full re-fit.
I also like the idea of specialized missiles to take on smaller targets - e.g., the "flak torpedo" concept somebody mentioned, although I would envision something more along the lines of a MIRV - a warhead that splits off into multiple smaller missiles when it nears its target. MIRV = "Multiple Independently-targeted Reentry Vehicle", so we'd need a different acronym - "Multiple Independently-targeted Missiles" (MIM's) or something. Could be scaled to Cruise or Torp level with FoF varieties as well. Basically, would be designed to fit a BS-sized launcher, yet still do full dmg against frigates (around half? the max dmg of a normal cruise or torp). This would allow a BS to attack smaller targets w/o requiring a full re-fit.
Red Horseman on 24 June 2005
Hmm sounds to me like the caldaridiots need to quit whining about the nerf and do what the rest of us do for killing frigs. Use smaller turrets or drones and get over it. The devs have probably over-nerfed it, as is their way, but it is good overall for gameplay. Now large missiles are best for large targets and near useless for small targets, JUST LIKE large turrets are useless for small targets. OMG you might have to fit non-wtfuber equips or... dare i say... get someone to help you in your lv4 mission?!!???! Thats the idea, lv4 is not intended to be done solo. If you can't handle it, there's always world of warcraft.
Hmm sounds to me like the caldaridiots need to quit whining about the nerf and do what the rest of us do for killing frigs. Use smaller turrets or drones and get over it. The devs have probably over-nerfed it, as is their way, but it is good overall for gameplay. Now large missiles are best for large targets and near useless for small targets, JUST LIKE large turrets are useless for small targets. OMG you might have to fit non-wtfuber equips or... dare i say... get someone to help you in your lv4 mission?!!???! Thats the idea, lv4 is not intended to be done solo. If you can't handle it, there's always world of warcraft.
Asurix on 28 June 2005
My opinion on the size factored damage is it's good, as if there's a big explosion and you're in a small, you will not get struck by the full strength of the explosion, because you're so small only a part of explosion, or shockwave whatever you want to call it, will hit you. My only issue is you will totally elevate the crow and kestrel to heaven, making every other interceptor useless. And to the people whining about your MegaT with 2k radius, i don't think the damage will increase, they just sad it would decrease with a lower radius. For example while a giant apocalypse will be consumed by the entire explosion of the torpedo, a taranis, being so small, and with himself speeding forward with 4km/s aswell, would, in reality, only be hit by maybe 5% of the explosion. (Watch a couple of space movies you'll see some examples)Probably with a bigger radius you will just be struck by the damage as stated in the attributes.
My opinion on the size factored damage is it's good, as if there's a big explosion and you're in a small, you will not get struck by the full strength of the explosion, because you're so small only a part of explosion, or shockwave whatever you want to call it, will hit you. My only issue is you will totally elevate the crow and kestrel to heaven, making every other interceptor useless. And to the people whining about your MegaT with 2k radius, i don't think the damage will increase, they just sad it would decrease with a lower radius. For example while a giant apocalypse will be consumed by the entire explosion of the torpedo, a taranis, being so small, and with himself speeding forward with 4km/s aswell, would, in reality, only be hit by maybe 5% of the explosion. (Watch a couple of space movies you'll see some examples)Probably with a bigger radius you will just be struck by the damage as stated in the attributes.
Raze Zindonas on 17 July 2005
I must say the concept CCP had here was nice, but the way the implameted it was overboard. Example: a structure striped of its shields and armor and left with only structure. Roughly the same size if not larger then the BS firing at it is hit with a kenetic torpedo dealing 160 damage. Whats the resoning for this, was the immoble stucture fast moving and doged it? Was the stucture who was visable larger then my BS not big enough to soak all the damage? Or more likly the signature radius on objects is not accuret or is not the best thing to use when calculating missile damage. Size might be better. I agree that there should be some scaling as far as size and speed go. But something when't wrong when this was put it. Also some of the NPCs due to their infinite lock range are now able to hit people with heavy missiles from about 140k , talk about a shock. Also of note the NPCs don't seem to be any the less for damage due to these changes. All in all, I must say I love the idea and appluded the devs for it. But I hope in the future they adjust the missile code some so it is a little bit more reasonable.
I must say the concept CCP had here was nice, but the way the implameted it was overboard. Example: a structure striped of its shields and armor and left with only structure. Roughly the same size if not larger then the BS firing at it is hit with a kenetic torpedo dealing 160 damage. Whats the resoning for this, was the immoble stucture fast moving and doged it? Was the stucture who was visable larger then my BS not big enough to soak all the damage? Or more likly the signature radius on objects is not accuret or is not the best thing to use when calculating missile damage. Size might be better. I agree that there should be some scaling as far as size and speed go. But something when't wrong when this was put it. Also some of the NPCs due to their infinite lock range are now able to hit people with heavy missiles from about 140k , talk about a shock. Also of note the NPCs don't seem to be any the less for damage due to these changes. All in all, I must say I love the idea and appluded the devs for it. But I hope in the future they adjust the missile code some so it is a little bit more reasonable.
Gunship on 17 July 2005
CONGRATULATIONS TOMB, YOU HAVE MANAGED TO MAKE THE RAVEN COMPLETELY USELESS BOTH FOR NPC AND PVP!! OHH AND WHILE IM AT IT, THE STEALTH BOMBERS ARE EVEN WORSE NOW !!! GOOD NEWS ALL ROUND !!!
Further commenting has been disabled. If you want to discuss this post then head on to the forums CONGRATULATIONS TOMB, YOU HAVE MANAGED TO MAKE THE RAVEN COMPLETELY USELESS BOTH FOR NPC AND PVP!! OHH AND WHILE IM AT IT, THE STEALTH BOMBERS ARE EVEN WORSE NOW !!! GOOD NEWS ALL ROUND !!!